2013/2014 NBA Trades, Signings, FA, and other Happenings

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mikhail1973, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    hmmm....I'm a little concerned about the expectations of bringing IT-2 here, but he HAS upped his game since arriving in the L. I guess I would be willing to roll with it, especially if it means keeping Moose instead of Smith.
     
  2. junior

    junior Bench Warmer 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    As the Sacramento Kings just signed Darren Collison to a 3 Year, $16 million dollar deal per USAToday, the rumors continue to rumble that the Detroit Pistons will look to sign-and-trade Josh Smith for young Isaiah Thomas per aroyalpain. It was also mentioned earlier per Zach Lowe (my favorite sports writer) at Grantland, that trading Smith may be imperative to signing Greg Monroe and keeping him happy for the next couple of years.

    The first thing that came to my mind was why would the Pistons want another under-sized score-first lefty point guard when they just signed Jennings to a multi-year deal last year, despite the fact that moving Smith would clear up the logjam in the front court.

    In analyzing the basic statistics of both Jennings and Thomas, one may assume these players are quite comparable. However, in delving into advanced metrics, one may find interesting distinctions.

    A few I noticed were from the 2013-2014 season:

    Shooting close to the basket (0-3 ft away):

    Thomas: 68.5% Jennings: 52.9%

    Thomas albeit smaller than Jennings by height (5'9" vs. 6'1"), actually is much stronger than Jennings (170 lbs vs. 185 lbs), and it can be seen in his power finishing at the rim.

    Efficiency - PER (player efficiency rating) and TS (true shooting percentage):

    PER -- Thomas: 20.5 Jennings: 15.6
    TS -- Thomas: 57.4% Jennings: 48.6%

    Thomas not only scores more points than Jennings (21.1 ppg vs. 16.4 ppg), he does it in a much more efficient way.

    Overall Contribution to Team - Offensive Rating (points produced per 100 possessions) and Wins Shared (Number of wins contributed by an individual player to team):

    ORtg -- Thomas: 114 Jennings: 106
    WS -- Thomas: 7.7 Jennings: 3.9

    As a point guard, the young Isaiah Thomas contributes offensively to a team's success in many more facets than Jennings.

    In terms of 3 Point Percentage (34.9% vs. 33.7%), Assist to Turnover Ratio (2.1 vs. 2.8), and Rebounding (3 vs. 3.2), (Thomas vs. Jennings, respectively); these players are quite comparable, with Jennings having an edge in the AST to TO ratio.

    The final question I ask myself is well, Thomas is much shorter, how would our defense be impacted by losing the height of Jennings? Well it turns out, they are both comparable defensive players (not saying either of them are elite). Looks like we not much would be lost as a defender from Jennings at 113 Defensive Rating (DR) and 0.9 Defensive Wins Shared (DWS) to Thomas 111 DR and 1.3 DWS.

    An intriguing analysis to consider in the future would be how both of these players stack up against elite NBA point guards. Playing against players like John Wall, Kemba Walker, and Kyrie Irving in the Eastern Conference, one would hope to have a player that can defend these superstars.

    My final point to consider is that the player most similar to that of young Isaiah is actually Kyrie Irving who just signed a huge contract with the Cavs per ESPN. To compare the first and last picks in the 2011 NBA draft doesn't seem quick right, but I am going to do it anyways.
    KyrieAdvanced.png ThomasAdvanced.png

    We notice that the PER, TS%, ORtg, DRtg, OWS, and WS actually favors Thomas over Irving in the 2013-2014 Season.

    Traditional Stats:
    Thomas (20.3 ppg, 45.3 FG%, 6.3 AST, 1.3 STL, 3.0 TO)
    Kyrie (20.8 ppg, 43.0 FG%, 6.1 AST, 1.5 STL, 2.7 TO)

    Seeing as Kyrie will be making 18 mil per year next season and Thomas was recently offered 8 mil per year per detroitbadboys, that stats show that Thomas would come at great value.

    Summary: Thomas is comparable or better than Jennings in just about measurable metric. Trading away Josh Smith would help the franchise move forward and give more opportunity to keeping Greg Monroe, who is younger and has more potential. The deal the Pistons offered Thomas may seem strange seeing as we already have a lefty shoot-first point guard, but Thomas has the potential of players akin to Kyrie Irving at a much more reasonable value.
     
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  3. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Rumours of the Pacers in talks with Suns for a Dragic deal. Pacers don't have much to offer. Joe get it done! Err, I mean, Stan get in on that action asap!!
     
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  4. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    We can sign IT and let Monroe walk. We will need defenders if we are going to have guys like Thomas or Jennings at the point.
     
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  5. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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  6. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

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    SVG said it was all lies that Monroe want Smith out of the team.

    Don't know if I can believe that or not.
     
  7. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    I have no problem seeing Moose walk. Athleticism similar to Bill Laimbeer, but without his range and fire. Hope he does well wherever he ends up.

    Would love to see newIT come here. Short, but he can play.
     
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  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Couldn't Cuban agree to pay dirk after his career to make it up to him? Skip lux tax and save cap space?
     
  9. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    He could, but no separate deals are permitted under the CBA.
     
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Well, yeah, but would be tough to enforce.
     
  11. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    your going to take that chance as an owner.... the player owns you forever.... the player loses a few million if the story comes out, the owner.... pretty sure he'll lose his team.
     
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  12. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I don't know about losing a team, but you're talking Kevin McHale screwing up the Minnesota Timberwolves (losing 3.5mil and three first rounders) in the early 2000's kind of stuff. The league doesn't look kindly on that kind of stuff.
     
  13. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    OK...even IF I could understand why you would LET a talented center just walk out the door. Please to be explaining to me why you WOULD. Even if he doesn't stay here, you have ALL the cards in your hand with him being a restricted FA. EVERY TEAM in the league covets talented big men and with a guy at his age and skill level, you could get A LOT in return via sign and trade. There's absolutely NO reason to just let Monroe walk for zero compensation.
     
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  14. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Of course, a sign and trade would be best. Monroe would need to agree to the deal. I don't see that happening. With the coaching carousel he's been through and the Smoov acquisition, I can understand him holding some resentment for the organization.

    What is your best sign and trade scenario?
     
  15. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Best case (would NEVER happen)....would be a sign and trade where we throw in ANYTHING MIN wants, save Drummond, for Love. Never gonna happen. Ever.

    2nd...best would be to work something in S&T that nets either IT2 or Ariza. (I still have pause about Thomas, but I'm willing to role the dice)...or perhaps Chandler Parsons. I also recall a rumor of Smith potentially going to SAC for IT2, so it would be moot and I think Monroe would just re-sign outright.

    I would have also liked to have gone after Lance Stephens, but it appears Vector Graphics only wants "good guys" here. Besides, I don't think Stephens is someone we could have gotten without trying to convince IND to give up something else to make the money work if it involved Monroe.

    The big name players weren't coming to DET, but I think we should have been more active with the 2nd tier of guys...
     
  16. max

    max All-Star

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    Monroe has never had a decent coach. Be interesting to see what he does under SVG and Monroe does fit his system.

    15mil/yr seems like a lot to me but if that is his value then have to option to trade him later on.
     
  17. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    I agree. It would be nice to hear the Pistons name mentioned at least making an attempt.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2014
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  18. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm also claiming dibs on Thomas coming here and calling him "IT2" then "T2" for short, then sealing the deal with nicknaming him The Terminator. ©Pwn Toney :gun1:
     
  19. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Restricted FA is sometimes a very bad position to be in with someone like Monroe. It's guaranteed that there is at least one GM out there that thinks he is worth the rookie max, or close to. Detroit doesn't want to pay Moose $15m a year, but we also don't want to let him walk for free. A great example of this is Eric Gordon. NOP got bid up by the Phoenix Suns and they didn't want to let go of what they considered to be an asset.

    This is known as the endowment effect - where you consider things in your possession to be more valuable than an equivalent outside of your possession.
     
  20. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    You're going to need to explain that further, because the examples you just gave are people bidding more for the thing "outside" of their possession as you put it.
     

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