8 Months Later Monroe or Cousins

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Feb 5, 2011.

  1. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Ft. Belvoir, Virginia
    Well, it's been almost eight months since the 2010 draft and I hate to say that I told you so, but Monroe is the real deal. I was salivating after Monroe dropped to the the Pistons.

    Not to knock Cousins, a good player but the second coming of Ron Artest.

    So, for all of you folks who wanted Cousins over Monroe, I would like to hear your reassessment of the Monroe/Cousins pick.

    I am assuming that Monroe's toughness and versatility are no longer question marks for anyone who have witnessed his game.

    By the way, Monroe has been getting scarily better each game. He still have things to work on, not much though. With a good off-season conditioning program and daily visits to the weight room, oh boy.

    Strengths: Help side defense, rebounding (both ends of the floor), offensive capability in the high post, passing, foot work for a big guy is outstanding

    Weaknesses: Low post game needs work, athleticism.
     
  2. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,002
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Vienna
    well, it basically remained the same - Cousins still seems to have more upside, as he's only 20 and has had some really, really good games.
    On the other hand, Monroe seems to way better than I thought, he makes up for his lack of leaping ability with good positioning - kinda like Kevin Love. If he gets stronger and only slightly more athletic, he can be one very decent player, but I still don't see him as an all star.
    That said, I'd still take Cousins over him, as he has shown his potential but I'm not mad anymore because Monroe is a safe bet, yet not the salvation that Cousins may have become in 2 or 3 seasons.
     
  3. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,375
    Likes Received:
    7
    Now that he's had a month straight of high level play, it will be interesting to see how much more his teammates/coach call his number on the offensive end. I think he has earned at least 3-4 back-to-the-basket touches per game at this point. Right now he's lucky if he gets one. Which is sad, because Wilcox generally gets more than that.

    If he can score 12+ppg without really getting any touches to create his own offense, I'd be interested to see what he can do for himself. I think it would open up a lot of his passing game as well.
     
  4. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    146
    Location:
    tartu
    @armygirl: you forgot to add that leapers career is shorter and they are prone to injuries, monroe is developing to longlasting, reliable player.
     
  5. jayborne

    jayborne Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    66
    Demarcus Cousins without a second thought. He's the better player now and projects to have more upside. Other than the possible attitude, I don't think there is anyone who'd prefer to have Monroe over him. And attitude isn't the death wish for players.

    Monroe will be solid though. We didn't have an opportunity to pick Cousins so that's just fine.
     
  6. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,874
    Likes Received:
    825
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Cousins. I had no beef with the Greg Monroe pick, he was by far and away the best player available at the time of our selection. In the early part of the season I projected Monroe to become a solid contributer who would "underwhelm" us all season long, but I must admit there are times when Monroe makes some beautiful basketball plays, nothing that warrants Sportcenter, but the kind of stuff us basketball enthusiasts love to see.
     
  7. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Searching for the "D" in Detroit
    Monroe is better than Cousins right now. He just understands the game so much better, is far more efficient (Cousins is shooting an abysmal 43%), and is way better defensively.

    Cousins is the next Derrick Coleman, without the skills or freakish athleticism. Give me Monroe any day.
     
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,655
    Likes Received:
    2,994
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Also, a similar thought, guys who figure out how to produce without athleticism don't have to reinvent their games when they age.
     
  9. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,806
    Likes Received:
    1,801
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Still to early to give a true assessment. What we saw originally was Cousins in the starting lineup playing and putting up decent numbers right away and all we got was Monroe playing spot minutes and getting blocked so there was some initial discontent.

    We are all happy now that Monroe is getting a chance to play/start and show his skills. (Similar to what JJ did last season). Our previous coaches wasted the potential skills of Amir, Darko, and even Max by refusing to put them in real time situations. Afflalo got out of here in time to show what he could do.
     
  10. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    146
    Location:
    tartu
    amir and maxiell have got plenty of chances. Darko had to grow up first( finally happened this season)
    Coaches are not babysitters.

    It is one of stupidest fanmyth - coach is holding players back.
    Also fans tend to overmystify coache's role.
     
  11. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,806
    Likes Received:
    1,801
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Yep> in garbage time. If you got a 10-15 point lead in the first half, whats' the harm in putting a rookies in real time situations for 3-4 minutes? Especially if you got a good team.... Flip played his first 6-7 players heavy minutes every game during the regular season ignoring the draft picks and some of those vets burned out by game six of the ECF:sssh:
     
  12. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    832
    Likes Received:
    125
    Location:
    windsor
    very true, but how much of that was the vets egos wanting to not come out? Flip didnt have the players behind him and was affraid to anger any of the vets...the inmates were running the assylum
     
  13. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    146
    Location:
    tartu
    both amir and maxi started in post flip era...atleast for amir it was too much...maxiell had some really good in the past at least as a starter...

    as I said , they had chances
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,655
    Likes Received:
    2,994
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    AJ- the lack of man-love for him on this forum never ceases to amaze me:

    Season 1: 39 minutes total in only 3 appearance. He shot 70% from the field, including 2 of 3 from 3-point land and the best first basket of any player in NBA history (windmill dunk).

    Season 2: 124 minutes total in only 8 appearances. Shot .550 from the fields and was on pace to average a double double every 33 minutes.

    By the way, Artis Gilmore is the all time NBA career leader in FG% at .599.

    Amir Johnson is currently sitting on a career FG% of .598.

    .001 off of the highest in NBA history. That's some efficiency. It was .623 last year in Toronto with 82 games played.


    He didn't get much of a chance in years 1 or 2, but when he did, he produced. His production rate actually increased over the next years when he started to get minutes, but for some reason, he was put out with the trash.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Gender:
    Male
    Both Amir and Maxiell had chances. The intense man-love for Amir on this forum never fails to amaze me.

    Anyways, going back on topic, it is hard to compare. Cousins can be an explosive scorer, and he can also do dumb things and disappear for games. Monroe is a more consistent player and is reliable with a good attitude. They are just different types of players. As suggested earlier, Monroe is likely going to have a longer career.

    Statwise, Cousins scores more per game, grabs 1 more board than Monroe and assists 1 more than Monroe. However, those stats are skewed due to the limited start Monroe had to the season. Monroe's FG% is much better than Cousins' and he's putting up comparable numbers while playing as an afterthought. Cousins is the better player to start with, but Monroe is developing faster, and more steadily, than Cousins.

    Each can be the missing link on a very good team. If you have a mostly calm team, you may want the alpha-dog with a nasty attitude personality of Cousins. If you already have an alpha-dog on the team, Monroe might be the better option.

    Overall, I think that Monroe is a better fit for this team right now.

    We can truly compare the two at the end of their sophomore years.
     
  16. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    Cousins is eating at the table by himself. Monroe is fed by someone else. That is a big difference. Monroe has played well, but Cousins has a much greater responsibility on his shoulders.

    Cousins can really pass. Monroe's offense is slowly but surely expanding.
     
  17. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    146
    Location:
    tartu
    @TaS

    In toronto Amir is a nice niche player. Not a starter. That is A HUGE difference not only in NBA but practically everywhere.
     
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,655
    Likes Received:
    2,994
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Only 3 players on the Pistons have more starts or minutes than Amir this year. Not sure what you're referring to.

    Just think about this stat for a moment:
    Amir's career Offensive Rating (Ortg) minus his career Defensive Rating (Drtg) is +17.

    Here are some other leaders in this statistic:
    Jordan finished his career at +15
    Tim Duncan at +15.
    Larry Bird finished at +14.
    Shaquille O'Neal at +12.
    Karl Malone at +12.

    Not exactly lightweights.
     
  19. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    146
    Location:
    tartu
    If I remember correctly, Curry gave to Amir starter's spot.IIRC, it did not work out.

    Toronto also plays fast paced game, and as our forumites noticed long time ago, that style suits to Amir very well.

    As you have noticed, Pistons STILL is a very slow-paced team, and this game was not for Amir.

    Man, this is neither first nor last time when your draft pick fits well with different coach/team.

    I now, it sucks but that is a part of life.

    Had I keep Amir instead of paying to Villaneuva? In hindsight, yes, but CV was worth of risk at this time.
     
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,655
    Likes Received:
    2,994
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Curry was the one who did not work out.

    Amir started 24 games that year and we were 15-9 in those games.

    He came off the bench in 38 games and we were 12-26 in those games.

    As a starter, he shot .642 from the field and as a reserve he shot .549 from the field. He was good in both roles, but the team was much better when he started and played more minutes.

    Highest offensive rating on the team, with leading FG%, eFG%, and TS% and virtually tied for the best defensive rating with Dyess and Sheed.

    The Pistons must be in the 50% of NBA teams that don't have a statistician on staff. Between Afflalo and Amir, it's like Joe was flying blind. These weren't guys who burst onto the scene after they were traded, they were showing strong performance while they were here, just in limited minutes.

    Buffonery, pure and simple.
     

Share This Page