AI Benched! Rip To Start the Rest of the Season

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Mossberg, Feb 27, 2009.

  1. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    They are going after AI full blast. It's funny to see the low-light packages they choose to accompany him now. They might as well show him going around and kicking the homeless.

    This is from the Free Press but by a Philly writer. Geez.

    Philly writer: Age has caught up with Allen Iverson | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press
  2. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,647
    Likes Received:
    292
    Location:
    Michigan/Glasgow
    he actually made a good point about billiups... both times we played them we did a just horrible job on him in the first half and a much better in the 2nd half. Didn't Prince take him out in the denver game and last night the guards did a good job of keeping him from the ball in the 2nd half.

    The announcers made a good point that for alot of the 4th quarter denver was playing 4 on 4 offense because we denied him the ball back once he passed off.
  3. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    477
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Gracias:thumb[1]:
  4. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    477
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I could if I had more time (or paying sponsors)...I just don't have the time to commit to the necessary research in order to really make a go at it.
  5. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    477
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Pretty typical of the local rags. Iverson himself is not the problem. Trying to fit Iverson on this team was the mistake and that doesn't lie at the feet of Iverson.

    Once again, the org. gets a pass while the "reporters" go after the player. It's a shock that the general public has such a love hate relationship with players.
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    1,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I'm sure these stories are just a coincidence and are totally unrelated to AI being injured or coming off the bench...
  7. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Brooklyn New York
    So true. It didn't take the AI bashers long to come out.
  8. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,011
    Likes Received:
    466
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    I gave you actual quotes from aTv interview and u show me NO love!!

    YOUUUUUUUUUU slut!!:hand: talk to it!
  9. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,713
    Likes Received:
    1,367
    Gender:
    Male
    Allen Iverson experiment has been instructive for Pistons - Ian Thomsen - SI.com
    This quote by Rip makes it sound like from day 1, none of the players believed Iverson would work here and they never even tried to make it work. If that's really the case, AI isn't going to get on the good side of this team even if he gave foot massages to the whole team after every game.

    If that's the case Joe, then how can you say that you were hoping for a success this year with a straight face?

    Kudos to Joe D. for setting up AI for failure.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,340
    Likes Received:
    2,700
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    I still like Dumars no-superstar model. More diversification and therefore less likely to be derailed by injury, slump, etc. I believe that he proved it's a valid model. Got a championship and could have had 1 or 2 more with a little luck or one more contributor off the bench (ala if Darko would have panned out to be the equiv of a late 1st rounder).

    I think he should use this new found cap space to go after multiple (3 or 4) 2nd tier stars that play defense and fit our model instead of the 1 or 2 top guys that everyone's going after.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    1,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I don't. It's too much like basketball socialism.

    Inevitably, when his no-superstars achieve success, they will want recognition. They will want minutes, bigger paydays, and all-star appearances.

    Exceptional people rarely settle for mediocre results, and mediocre people aspire to exceptional results.

    It's great in a fairy tale sense, but it runs in denial to reality. Rip wanted to be a starter again because he believes he is a star. McDyess is the Joe Dumars exception to the rule, good luck finding 5 or 6 of him. First round picks who are exceptional players, with nearly zero ego.

    As time goes on, I think the only reason that team won a title and competed in back to back years, was the superstar coach, and the superstar leader (Ben Wallace).

    We need superstars with the right attitude. We need Tim Duncans, Manu Ginobilis, Bill Laimbeers and Isiah Thomases.

    Five Tayshaun Princes will pump fake you into a seizure.
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,340
    Likes Received:
    2,700
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    There's virtually no competition in that space, which is why I like it. The Spurs are the only team looking for the type of players that we should be looking for.

    There are 6 teams or so that have no real strategy.

    The other 22 are all fighting over the same assets.


    They are all chasing stocks with high P/E's. We should be the strategic value investor that scoops up underappreciated assets.

    In our niche, we can overpay on the market price by 25% and still be getting a good deal. Rip Hamilton is a player that I would consider a 2nd tier star. Add guys like Battier and Afflalo in with Rip Hamiltons and Rasheed Wallace's and you have the potential for a sum greater than the parts. So, not only do you get a discount on your assets when you acquire them, but your returns get boosted by the synergy.

    At the upper end of the spectrum, we can pay the market price and get a terrible deal. I don't want Rashard Lewis taking up 25% of our team salary for example... no matter how well he plays. Jason Kidd making $21M? Allen Iverson making $22M? For every team that has success with the superstar model, there are 5 others where it is an utter failure.
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    1,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    The NBA more than any other sport, features the teams with the most talent, playing at the end of the year. 8th seeds rarely make it to the conference Finals.

    In the NFL, a wildcard, or in the NHL, an 8th seed, can play for the championship.

    So talent is not the issue. We obviously need as much talent as possible, even if it is first tier.

    But we need first tier talent at the best possible price, and equipped with Pistons DNA.

    The problem with this organization, and it starts with Bill D deciding to fire Larry Brown before he won the title, is that it's very insular, it has blinders on much of the time. That focus is great when they are right, but devastating when they are wrong.

    The Spurs are working in a smaller market, with less money and a more hands on ownership group, but they are less afraid of making mistakes, and take chances all of the time.

    Some cultures become so rigid they can't adapt. That is what has happened to our Pistons. Trading Chauncey was just the first step to redefining the squad. Sheed and Dice will be gone next. Rip and Tay will be thrust into the spotlight, and all success and failure, whether they are ready for it or not, is going to be on their shoulders.

    That is the price of resisting change. Ultimately, you end up being accountable for the results.

    Maybe Darko has Pistons DNA now but he didn't when he was drafted. Ben came with Pistons DNA, Rip and Chauncey adopted it, and Sheed, I dunno I don't think he ever really had Pistons DNA.

    I thought Maxie had Pistons DNA, but so did Don Reid. Talent and DNA. I thought AI had it too, but he's the wrong guy, at the wrong time it seems.
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,340
    Likes Received:
    2,700
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Aren't you born with DNA?

    Rip and Chauncey received gene therapy you're saying?


    On the LA Clippers forum, do they mention whether or not a guy has Clipper DNA?


    This is Rip Hamilton practicing his passes to Kwame Brown.
    :playball:
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    1,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    YES!

    Do you or do you not believe Larry Brown is radioactive?

    Clippers :rofl:
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,340
    Likes Received:
    2,700
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    I believe he's a self defeating prophecy who routinely violates his own paradox.
  17. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Searching for the "D" in Detroit
    Here's Charley Rosen's take on AI and his situation in Detroit.

    FOX Sports on MSN - NBA - Howard's quickness trumps Shaq's power in big battle
    Straight Shooting

  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,340
    Likes Received:
    2,700
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    That is what has baffled me too.
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    1,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I snipped the article, but it is very good and well worth reading. We just can't reprint without permission.

    My take is, the reason why Iverson didn't go to the bench is that the Pistons wanted to sell tickets, and I believe Joe thought he would make the team better, that the talent around him would be the difference.

    It's strictly revisionist history at this point (and I won't let it go) that Stuckey starting was the original plan. After that Laker victory, no one would have conceived of Rip or AI going to the bench.
  20. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    Very good article. McClonsky might actually have to write an article this summer to explain all this once the dust settles.

Share This Page