Discussion in 'Detroit Pistons General Discussion' started by AI IS GOD, Jan 13, 2009.
So in 2 days you all have decided that the seasons over?
Its no fun, I've decided that.
I see nothing fun about losing/playing close games to the Bobcats and Pacers. I can't accept that we are rebuilding because we're not really rebuilding. We're losing easy games because Moron is intentionally playing the wrong lineups to justify that his twisted coaching philosophies aren't complete . He's a loser, trying to incorporate a loser basketball strategy used by loser teams like the Warriors and the late 90's Pistons.
The season's not over, but we are digging ourselves in a huge hole. I am telling you these sort of bad habits and lack of character/toughness will bite us in the *** when the team needs to come together against a good team in the playoffs.
It's not over, but it gets really frustrating to see the same blatantly obvious problems replay over and over again.
We need to form an identity. We are not the tough, underdog team anymore. Maybe we can get back to that, but as of right now what are we? We hold teams to 80 one day then let them score over 100 the next day. We score to stay in the game one game, but can't make a basket to save ourselves a few days later.
Well isn't that Curry's whole idea about he doesn't want the offence to be predictable aka it can come from any guy on the floor.
We all can see it doesn't work out cause the team gets unbalanced but somehow MC rather has a philosophy then a balanced/winning team.
Last week with Rip and Sheed out and playing the young guys we had more identity then we have now with both of them back on the floor.
We haven't been that in more than 4 years. We weren't even that in LB's second season, which is when the sense of entitlement post-title really started to fester and sore.
Yeah, this is absolute B.S.
But the important thing is that Rip is happy. I sleep better knowing that.
Star you hit the nail on the head. One thing I'm seeing is the regression of Tayshaun, Tay was avg 18ppg in the absence of Rip and Sheed, he was getting to the point where 20pts and 8 rebs was easy.
That's BULL! Last week we had it, we had it, we had it, we had it!!!!! This week as Roscoe pointed out earlier, the old order is trying to re-establish itself. This team was going in a new direction with an emerging Tayshaun Prince, and AA growing into a solid 20mpg rotation player that brought a perimeter toughness (a-la Raja Bell & Bruce Bowen) that was fun to watch, now he'll barely play. I want Rip gone because it gets rid of the old order that most of us got literally SICK of. I'll put it this way, and quote me right here right now:
Ben was a casualty of Flip Saunders and his pet player Chauncey Billups and the direction that those 2 saw the team going in. Richard Hamilton will be the casualty of MC and his pet player Tayshaun Prince and the direction that those 2 are going in.
True. Not sure what you mean in that last sentence - Greg, could you elaborate a little for me please?
I do get the strong feeling that RIP no longer fits into the long term plans of the team.
Man, that is precisely how I feel on the matter!
Totally unacceptable B.S. This is the shizzle we have to put up with all football season with the Lions. Dumb Dumb Dumb.
To me, Michael Curry is nothing but a likeable Flip Saunders.
Likable? The consensus seems to be that the forum body DISLIKES his dress sense, his starting lineup, and his rotations. And I haven't even mentioned his small balls.
But in fairness, this is truly a transition season, so I get the feeling that management is not overly concerned with the way things are going. If it means MC trying to keep RIP and AI happy with both starting, so be it.
The main objective of the season: Find out just how good Stuckey is. Objective met thus far. Now what can he achieve in a full playoff series?
Next season AI will be gone (I can't see him agreeing to be a sixth man on a modest contract at this stage of his career), and I can't see RIP lasting beyond the trade deadline of 2010. Explaining why I feel that way deserves its own thread.
I meant I like him as a person. I thought Flip was a two faced weasel.
I totally agree that Curry's lineups, rotations, and small balls suck.
I don't care about how he dresses. I see cheap ugly suits going door to door handing out religious pamphlets all the time in Idaho. I can easily slam the door in their faces and forget about them (and believe me, I do).
Everybody thinks Ben left because Joe D and Mr.D were cheap. Ben left because the team's new coach, Flip, had a different philosophy of how he wanted the team to play. This new philosophy had a primary beneficiary: Chauncey Billups. Billups flourished under the new coach, he was the centerpiece of this 'New' team. Ben was the odd man out and ultimately became a casualty of the new Flip-Billups regime.
Fast Forward. Tayshaun (Not Stuckey) is to MC what Billups was to Flip; his security blanket, the player he trusts the most. The new coach sees Tayshaun Prince as an All-Star, not just a complementary glue-guy. In order for Tay to grow, Rip's got to go. And while it's not fact, it seems as if Rip's game is being squeezed out just like Ben's was. You tell me what offensive set looks better (a) Waitng 18 seconds for Rip to run around screens to get an open jumper - while Stuckey stands at the top jus dribbling and waiting and dribbling and waiting, or (b) Stuckey and AI constantly attacking the hoop and setting up their teammates with an agressive Tayshaun Prince on the court Dropping 20!!!
This is so exaggerated.
AI attacking the hoop is nice, but 1/ how many times does he actually do that ? From what i can tell he takes as many jump shots as Rip, and through our winning streak he was taking those same shots, shooting a shaky percentage, and we were winning b/c were big and our defensive players played alot more. Where are all these FT's that AI is supposed to be shooting ? And 2/ when he does attack the hoop in the 4th it's just as likely that it will end in a turnover or jumpball than an actual score or assist. And ironically, when Rip is not in the game, AI is running off those same freakin screens. It's the exact same play call. MC even went as far to say that in the Clips game, the play that was run for AI was a play we run for Rip.
Even then we had games that could go either way. By no means were these decisive wins, and i don't even mean score wise. I mean locking down in the 4th or exerting our will on the game. There were maybe 2 like that throughout the streak.
To say this is a better team without Rip is distorting the point. It could just as easily be as good if not better with Stuck/Rip starting with 2 bigs. Regardless we need both players to really compete. The problem is the coach needs to figure it out from a basketball standpoint rather than an emotional one.
edited to add; I just responded to another of your posts. I'm not picking on you. It's just ignoring AI's flaws (defensive especially) or Rip's for that matter is not going to get us anywhere. In fact we looked the best in the INDY game when Stuck/AA were in and Rip/AI were both on the bench. Does that mean they don't fit and Stuck/AA are the go to line-up ? Or is it just two guards that with 2 bigs on the floor that makes us good ? And really good in the case of AA/Stuck b/c they can both hold their own on the other end.
I think this is the vision Joe had when he made the deal, teams tiring them selves out on jump balls w/ AI and then having to chase TG around all those screens. This is going to start catching up with teams down the road.
And on that note;
Pistons want Allen Iverson to score more in paint - Detroit Pistons Basketball: News, Blogs, Photos, Audio, Schedule & Stats - MLive.com
AI's shots are 50 / 50 inside the lane vs. out. No way Rip shoots nearly that many from the paint. Even on fast breaks, you will always see Rip go off to the side to shoot a jumper. (Where on the same play, you will see AI taking it right to the rack.) Because AI attacks the paint so much, he naturally finds ops to dump the ball off to a big - if they have the sense to cut to the basket. You get none of that with Rip.
But here's the troubling part. Why is AI's shooting % worse when he gets 50% of his shots in the paint? That is one broken Jumper. Rip has been off this year and he's still outshooting AI by a significant margin (and that's not even counting the 3's). So, taking short jump shots from Rip on a fast break may be a better bet than having AI shoot a contested layup.
As far as the drop offs go... is the low shooting % made up for by the 2 extra assists and 1 extra turnover per game from AI? Partially.
The other component is free throws. AI makes 5 per game and Rip makes 3.5. So, there's another little bit that makes up for it.
The last component is defense.
I gotta agree with you there, Lee.
We disagree!! LOL. I will have to pay closer attention, but the majority of his points i see coming off of jump shots. Granted he does dribble closer in and alot of his shots are mid range or closer to the basket specifically from the middle of the floor. He seems to like to take a few dribbles before he shoots instead of just launching. I guess some of those can be considered PIP. But unless it's a fast break i rarely see him being able to finish in the paint Wade-style. Even then he maybe has at most one or two great finishes at the rim per game.
A few times this year Rip has set Sheed and other bigs up beautifully. Rip does tend to stop and pop though when running the fast break. But then again that's Rip's strength.
AI's jumpshooting is not very good, and his strength is (or was) finishing/getting into the paint so it would make sense for him to stop taking so many.
On a side note i watched Game 5 of the LAL series, and Rip was driving into the paint, finishing at the basket off the break, creating, etc. I didn't know who he was for a second. WTH happened to that? Now when he dribbles i have to close my eyes.
listened to the media to much and decided he was only a mid range jumper? but its scary to look back at those games and compare them to what we have today.
Both our guards played hungrier and better all around offensively (referring to rip and bill here). they really read there own press to much. If they played like that the next 4 years you have to guess they would have had atleast one more title. Sheed keeps losing steps, but I don't see him playing less hard, just age catching up with him. Prince is better all around now in my watching.... but i am biased as he's my favorite of that bunch.
The worst thing that ever happened to this team is putting 4 players on the all star team.... Wish it would have been Just Ben and a guard (they could flip from year to year) so the team would have kept that chip on the shoulder.
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