AI or Hamilton going to bench?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by AI IS GOD, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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    As much as I would like to keep AI in the starting lineup, As it has been said here..Rip cant get his own shot, and isnt real good at setting up teammates. To keep Rip effective, he needs someone to set him up, where AI can dish and create . I dont like moving Dyess to the sl as it has been mentioned here, he has said he likes coming off the bench and he is more effective doing that.( if it aint broke...)
    In a perfect world, Rip would come off the bench ala Manu and either AI or stuck can feed him where he is comfortable, coming off screens and curling. Dyess and RIP are 6th and 7th startersand both provide offense off the bench. Amir remains starter. its a great problem to have( 2 all star 2s) if you can make it work.
  2. max

    max All-Star

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    If half the things written about Rip were true he would be playing oversees driving across Europe in a team bus.
  3. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Hey i'll put mine down when everybody else does. :hand: j/k

    And some of the fortune tellers are young. I've gotten my tarot cards read by girls that were my age; granted they were "apprentices" to the older tarot card ladies LOL
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That's fair.

    Oh you're really too much. lol You'd get on great with my mum and sister. They have gone to psychics. Heck, they might still go.

    I tell them I can make predictions too. Like after going to the psychic, they will be $50 lighter in the pocket!
  5. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    better check out some fresh notes from Langlois. Small ball will be discontiniued.
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Want to explore one other aspect of this small ball thing.

    The part I hate about it isn't really the 3 guards, it's the lack of PF.


    Rip's stats have actually been better at the 3 than at the 2 this year. Part of that may have been that he got off to a bad start at the 2 when AI came over and hasn't had time to correct for those numbers. But maybe part of it is that he's tall enough to play the 3 and quick enough to get off on offense.

    Richard Hamilton of the Detroit Pistons, NBA player stats and data from 82games.com

    Scroll down the page to see the stats for SG vs. SF. He's shooting a higher percentage at the 3 and holding his man to a lower percentage.


    This begs the question, could the following work?

    Stuck
    AI
    Rip/ Tay
    Amir
    Sheed

    Stuck/AI/ Bynum
    AA/ Rip/ AI
    Tay
    Max/ Herrmann
    Dyess/ Brown


    In this scenario, Tay would be our Manu. He'd also occasionally start when we are playing a premier scorer than Rip can't handle (Lebron, Kobe, Vince, etc.).

    In the playoffs, he'd be starting b/c every game would be against a premier 3.

    We don't really need a backup PG, b/c Stuck and AI can always man that position. We can start with Rip and end with Tay at the 3 to even it out a bit.


    I'm not sure I'm even convincing myself here, but just wanted to talk it through.
  7. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Great point.
  8. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    if rip came off the bench he'd always have either stuckey or AI in the game as well, so i don't see that as a problem.
  9. Pistons Lover

    Pistons Lover First Round Draft Pick

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    And that would make our bench more stagnant. And also, with him coming off screens, alot of teams predict that would happen and learned how to guard that. So LP we both agree that AI should come off the bench.
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I hope and pray that if I ever get into trouble, PL and LPG have my back like they have Rip's back. :gun1:

    Hamilton's got fierce support. I'm not sure he deserves it, but he has it.
  11. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    If it is AI in the game with him we are right back to where we started and the reason for him to come off the bench.

    It is not the fact that they can't play together; it is the fact that by playing them together; one of them has to play a game style that is not what they excel at and not what they have done to get where they are today.

    What I mean is Rip did not lead this team in scoring by racing up and down the court is not what got Rip all his points and coming off of screens is not what got AI his scoring titles. We need to utilize their talents to the fullest to get past the elite teams in the league.
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    But doesn't AI look 10X better out there now with the starters? I think we could go back to him as PG and have much better success. Thing is its Stuckys time and he is the future.

    Its going to be very interesting when Rip gets back.
  13. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Tay/JMax=Odom (this trade works).

    He will makes everyone better (he works every game) and you have to keep RIP. This is win-win for each team.

    If JD does not make a move for a big this season, then he is telling us something.

    From Insider:

    2007-08 season: During the Finals a narrative developed that Lamar Odom was the goat of the Lakers, but it's tough to see how. He was the only Laker to shoot over 50 percent for the series and had double-doubles in the final three games.

    The rest of his year wasn't bad, either. Odom blew away his previous career high by shooting 52.5 percent from the floor and yanked down an impressive 10.7 boards a game. He changed his shot mix away from the 3-pointer, taking barely half as many as a year earlier, and instead focused on playing off Pau Gasol and Kobe Bryant to get easy shots near the basket. Odom also did his part to make life easier for the other guys, ranking fifth among power forwards in pure point rating.

    As a result, Odom had a better PER than a year earlier even though he had far fewer touches -- his usage rate sank by over three points.

    Scouting report: For his size, Odom is one of the best ball handlers in basketball. The left-hander excels at taking opposing power forwards off the dribble, especially going to his left, and if help defense comes he's an excellent passer. Odom is below average as an outside shooter, however, with a line-drive release, and he's not an explosive athlete, either, so he sometimes has trouble finishing at the rim.

    Defensively, he's underrated for his toughness, doing a solid job against most power forwards despite giving up pounds. He's not a leaper but will block shots with his length and has become a strong rebounder in recent seasons. Overall, the Lakers gave up 3.4 points fewer per 48 minutes with him on the court.

    2008-09 outlook: Odom will move from power forward to small forward to accommodate the return of Andrew Bynum, which could prove challenging for him given his iffy outside shot. That's led many to speculate that the Lakers will seek to trade him, and the fact he has an expiring contract only fans the flames.

    In truth, a change of scenery would probably be a good thing for Odom. He's at his best with the ball in his hands a lot, where he can create off the dribble and set up teammates; he doesn't get to do much of that in L.A. and has never seemed completely comfortable playing off of Kobe Bryant. He's been around a long time but is still just 28, and if he's put in a more prominent role on another team he'll be a strong candidate for a career year.

    If he's in L.A., on the other hand, he may struggle a bit, as he'll be asked to fill a role for which he's not particularly well suited. And regardless of how he plays, the days leading up to the trade deadline should be some very interesting times for him.
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Odom is good an all, but he's not a 5, so what would be the point in trading for him?

    We're already weak behind Tay and Tay is a real 3. So, we'd be giving up the true SF for a combo SF/PF. Seems like an OK path if we are stuck on small ball and want to start Stuck/AI/Rip/Odom/Sheed. That beats having Tay at the 4 spot. But if we are going to play a traditional lineup, then I think Tay is better at the 3.

    I do like Odom's game though.
  15. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    LOL! :pound:
  16. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Actually he looks better with AA and to a lesser extent Dice. I think AI/AA's + rating together is some obscene number.

    Hey, if we make a trade for another forum owner and everybody wants him to take your place in the proverbial "starting line-up", i won't forget how good you are Roscoe and i wouldn't bench you either LOL :good:
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    +41 in 242 minutes. 0.168 per minute.

    Here are the best 2 man combos per minute for the season. Minimum of 100 minutes.

    1) Tay + Amir.......... +.271 (sample = 265 minutes)
    2) Sheed + Afflalo.....+.265 (237 min)
    3) Sheed + Amir.......+.218 (233)
    4) Iverson + Afflalo.. +.168 (242)
    5) Sheed + Stuckey.. +.166 (485)
    6) Rip + Afflalo........ +.166 (155)
    7) Rip + Amir........... +.161 (210)
    8) Afflalo + Amir...... +.161 (117)
    9) Sheed + Dyess.......+ .148 (107)
    10) Iverson + Stuckey..+ .132 (402)

    It really is quite ridiculous when you think about it. Sheed, Amir, and Afflalo all appear 4 times on the list.


    However, what if we only look at the last 10 games for each player combo?

    1) Tay + Amir........... +.477
    2) Max + Amir........... .376
    3) AI + Amir............. .319
    4) Sheed + Stuck...... .315
    5) Sheed + Amir......... .313
    6) Stuck + Amir.......... .299
    7) Rip + Amir............. .270
    8) Afflalo + Amir.......... .239
    9) Sheed + AI............. .202
    10) Stuckey + AI......... .198

    Now that is one of the damnest things I ever seen I swear I had no idea that it would turn out like this. This guy is the +/- KING. I'm not going to be ashamed of my man love from now on.
  18. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    We need more that a 5 (and everyone wants a 5). With Odom you have insurance. He can play a 3, 4 or a 5 slot. He is 6-10 and a crafty shooter. Who knows what is going to happen. I prefer JD take a prudent approach and have people that are flexible. Tay can't face the basket and is not quick (there is your 3). Dyess (spot up shooter and must limit his minutes), Amir (has no finesse around the basket), JMax (the ultimate tweener) are your 4s. You have Sheed (who likes to play 30 feet from the hoop and provides no offensive rebounds) combined with Brown (who is lost) at the five.

    This is not going to take you through the playoffs. This is not your future next year and you will need more than a 5. Take it when you can get it. I say take Odom and have another expiring contract and gives you insurance to have a solid, flexible starter and at least give yourself an attractive crew to get that big. Even someone like Kaman would work with Odom.

    AI, Stuckey, Afflalo, Bynum, Amir, Sheed, Dyess and Rip would love an Odom around the paint.
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    But what about not having an all-star shooting guard next year?
  20. Terry T

    Terry T First Round Draft Pick

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    Joe Dumars would never trade for Odom because Odom is a known choke artist and is easily intimidated by physical play.

    If you bring Iverson off the bench then you would be starting the game with a solid defensive unit.

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