All roads lead to Chauncey

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Oracle, Jun 3, 2007.

  1. Oracle

    Oracle First Round Draft Pick

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    While Flip didn't make any smart adjustment, the adjustment he could have made was taken off the table by Chauncy.

    Chauncy's journey began when he got hurt and the team went on a tough west coast series of games. Several good things happened on that trip, but the keys were.

    1. Flip Murray emerged as a decent guard that could penetrate.
    2. We found that running the offense through Webber worked like magic.

    Then two things happened when we returned home.
    1. Chauncy, in a big article complained that he didn't know his role anymore when the offense ran through Webber. His complaints were powerful and heard, so Flip ditched the offense that worked so well, and we went back to Chauncy as the facilitator.
    2. Hunter was returning to form, and slowly but surely, he pushed Murrays minutes further down.

    IMO, these two thing simply killed us. When we hit a team that could shut our guards down(great job by Mike Brown), the logical answer should have been to move the offense through another focal point... Webber. This would have allowed the guards to get more movement without having primary responsibility for controlling game flow.

    With that accomplished, we should have been able to minimize most of the turnovers. Unfortunately, it's hard to make an adjustment to a scheme that you abandoned months ago.

    My point is that Chauncy is at the bottom of this, and Flip caved, knowing how successful we were using Webber.

    Even so, you have to credit the Cavs coach. We killed them in the regular season, but he came up with a plan to hit us at our weakest position, the ball distributor. It worked like a charm, the engine of our offense never really got started.

    Now maybe Joe will get this team the help they need, and it's not much. We really only need two things.
    1. A real Big Man, we can't play with big team. and,
    2. A bonafide scorer off the bench(a penetrating guard or sf)
    Other than that, just draft well, and make smart trades with all the good pieces we already have.
  2. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: All roads lead to Chauncy

    CB needs a viable starter quality backup to keeep his minutes down and handle matchup not in CB's favor i.e. facing a quicker guard. Zach Randolph maybe a good trade with high return and risk.
  3. Tally

    Tally First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: All roads lead to Chauncy

    Oracle, I have thought about that stretch several times as well. We did see a glimpse of what this team could be with a different style - a style more suited for our coach and starting center (at that time). A style that is better suited for the playoffs.

    With Billups running the point and Webber standing around with nothing to do...we saw how a defense that didn't have to react to either dribble penetration or an inside presence can easily defend the perimeter. Leading to a team shooting percentage in the mid 30's.

    If Flip Saunders had been able to develop a Flip Murray/Webber counterpunch for the playoffs, he might have been able to defeat that gimmicky Cavs defense. That's on him.

    So, if we keep Chauncey, it better be part of a strategy that has us getting younger, stronger inside players that command instant double teams, because Chauncey can no longer be relied upon to force a defense to react all by himself.
  4. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Re: All roads lead to Chauncy

    Flip Murray is terrible.

    Cleveland lost to us last year with Flip Murray on their team. This year we take him off their hands and they beat us.

    Do you guys think for a minute that Cleveland would have beaten us if they had been using Murray instead of Gibson??

    :hoops:
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Re: All roads lead to Chauncy

    BF, big difference between the two scenarios.

    Murray is a penetrator. Cavs already had Hughes and LeBron performing that service.

    The Pistons needed a penetrator. Flip is basically the only guy we have that can take his man off the dribble.

    Signing Flip and for that cheap was a pretty darn good move.
  6. Tally

    Tally First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: All roads lead to Chauncy

    That's why the thread isn't called, "all roads lead to Flip." As bad as Flip Murray is, his play showed that this Piston team could play a different style without blowing the whole thing up. These Pistons shoot poorly in the playoffs because they are getting very few open looks - like the ones Gibson were getting and hitting. Chauncey was not breaking down the defense and we had virtually no inside presence...therefore Cleveland's D stays at home and most of our shots are heavily contested...and missed.
  7. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    I say try a sign and trade with C-Bill. The team needs someone at the point to go with AJ and his game. This team should be built around AJ, he is talented enough to become a big time star.

    C-Bill is too old to do it and Murray is not good enough.

    :hoops:
  8. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    We do need someone decent to back up CB. Johnson at Atlanta may be available. He would give about 20-25 minutes per game with about 7-9 points and 4-5 assists. It doesn't necessarily have to be him, but someone of the type. A solid backup who can score a bit and make sound decisions. Chauncey needs to be re-signed for a reasonable amount. If he's asking for lots, then sign-and-trade him.
  9. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    If Chauncey doesn't get a backup there is no use in signing him. He plays like he is one of the worst PG's in the league when he is tired.
  10. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Tired or rushed. He is not good at running a transition offense, he always needs stuff to settle down. Downfall with this approach is that it allows other like minded defensive teams time to set their scheme i.e. Cavs.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think Joe has babied this roster enough.

    We don't have a bonafide backup 3 because Tay gets all the minutes. Delfino is a natural 2 and it's debatable how good he actually is.

    We didn't play Darko because Ben got all the minutes.

    We don't have a bonafide backup PG because (this is totally my opinion) Joe didn't want to pressure Chauncey until his new contract was signed. There was absolutely no rhyme or reason to trade Arroyo when he cost us a first round pick. He might not have been a starting guard, but I have a hard time believing he wasn't one of if not the best backup PG in the NBA.
  12. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm starting to shift a bit on my support for Chauncey. You have to get it done in the playoffs...one of the reasons Jerry Stackhouse fell out of favor. Our pal Merc posted this harsh critique of Mr. Big Shot on the RealGM forum..

    He may be right.
  13. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    I've pondered the dealing of Arroyo many times...most recently, earlier today. When the trade went down, I wasn't too concerned...viewing Lindsey as experienced and serviceable for a couple years. And when Murray got signed, I figured we had enough to cover CB's back while staying within BillD's checkbook limitations.

    A few months ago, I finally came to the conclusion that sending Arroyo off was a mistake.

    Ain't hindsight a beautiful thang...
  14. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    But he was part of the deal that gets us the nice draft choice (Acie Law??) this year. Wouldn't we rather have him, Crittenton or Stuckey than Arroyo?
  15. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I always thought Arroyo was an overdribbler.
  16. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    I've consider that aspect too. We'll see come draft day and, most likely, have to wait a year or so to figure out what we really got.
  17. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Indeed he was. But he was quick and could get to the rim.
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    Whats the solution guys? What realistic suggestiond do you have to replace Billups?

    I agree he let us all down but he also lost a lot of money in that series.
  19. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    I don't have a suggestion. I want him to stay. We'll see what happens.
  20. max

    max All-Star

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    I am guessing he lost about 2-4mil/yr in that series. If we get him back for 10-12mil/yr it will be a good deal.

    Also find the guy a decent backup. He played so much better when we had Arroyo. I think just knowing that he did not have to do it all really helped his game.

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