Amir Johnson?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by max, Apr 14, 2009.

  1. max

    max All-Star

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    What do you think? Potential or is it about time to give it up and find someone else?

    One thing I was reminded about is that he is still young - only 21 years old. He should be in his senior year of college right now.

    Another reason to give him a pass is the substandard quality of coaching this year. He could be not getting the type of direction that he needs.

    Amir has shown signs of being a decent player. He is quick, can block shots and rebound. I would be tempted to give it one more year. Another year hopefully with a new coach who can organize the team better.
  2. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    How long is his contract? Is it 1 more year? He IS behind schedule IMO. I'd go one more season.
  3. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    I'd be okay with another season if Curry isn't coaching.
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The question asks us to assume that he didn't have a successful year.

    I don't really want to let the coach's opinion of a player's performance influence my opinion.

    In all seriousness, I just don't think MC was able to see the things that Amir was doing well. He was dwelling on the mistakes (fouls, defensive improv, etc.).

    The things that he was doing well:
    • the other team's eFG drastically dropped when he was in the game
    • we blocked 8% of the opponent's shots when he was in
    • we rebounded much better offensively and even a little better defensively when he was in
    • Our offense stayed the same when he came in the game, but we allowed 8 fewer points on defense. That is a huge difference.
    And this is no sampling error at this point...
    per 100 possessions, we outscored the other team by 4.9 with him in the game and were outscored by a pathetic 2.8 with him on the bench. That is the difference between the 6th best team in the NBA and the 22nd best team.

    I've accepted the fact that he's in the doghouse, but I haven't accepted that it is justified.
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    Yes I believe he has 1 more year left on his contract. I would expect a lot of moving and shaking with the team this summer and someone like him would still be worth something in a trade I imagine.
  6. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Bingo.

    Curry thinks playing the same unit over and over again, and watching us lose rather embarrassingly is much more FUN! than stepping out of his comfort zone.
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Potential? Not even an appropriate word when talking about Amir.

    I know people don't like stats. But hey, I am going to lay one on you anyway.

    54%

    That is the percentage of times we gain on the other team when Amir enters the game.

    Here is the short list of other Pistons who boast a positive number on this stat:

    Sheed 62%

    Brown 53%

    Afflalo 51 %

    So, development? Amir is the 2nd most successful Piston in terms that really matter, playing winning basketball.

    Now, who do you suppose is the worst Piston in this stat. The one guy, who if he is on the floor, gives the other team a 2-1 chance of scoring more than us:

    Dyess: 36%

    The rest of the Pistons are in the 40's:

    JMAX 40.6%

    AI, Bynum, Prince, Rip, Herrmann, all between 44% and 46%

    Stuckey 49%

    If you wanted to base your rotation on guys who win consistently (score more than get scored upon), these are the guys who you would give the bulk of the minutes to:

    Stuckey, Afflalo, Amir, Sheed, Kwame.
  8. raxrets

    raxrets Starter

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    amir hypers are forgetting one and the most important thing- he played against of subs after he lost his starter's position.

    Amir isn't frighening to any of PF's, can't make plays, does not put ball on the floor, has no midrange jumper, don't box out anybody. His blocks are mainly lucky gamble, not a result of solid positioning: this freak still jumps on every move and sometimes happens to block somebody. Rebounds? more hype than reality. Two hustle plays don't justify 20 min playing time.
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    When a gambler is consistently lucky, it's time to quit letting him in your casino.
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    There already exists a thread for AI's gambling problems. :focus:
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Same rule applies to a gambler who urinates in your public trash cans and throws chips around in a drunken rage. It doesn't take a genius pit boss to differentiate between these 2 forms of gambler, but MC couldn't figure it out in 81 games.
  12. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm not sold on Amir. I do believe that he's got potential, but nobody seems to be teaching him anything. You can't learn how to play in the NBA on your own with limited (and inconsistent PT). In the hands of a good front court assistant coach, he has the potential to develop into a great player. For example, if he had been in Utah instead of Millsap, I wonder if he would've turned into a double double machine this year.

    Unfortunately, we'll never know. I said it before, and I'll say it again. Amir is the new Darko.
  13. HelloIDistance

    HelloIDistance First Round Draft Pick

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    Good thread, I was just thinking about this the other day. I like Amir and I really wanted him to succeed, but he has basically shown zero progress. I understand he's young, but I don't think he's going to pan out.

    The negative
    He has no post game. He can't put the ball on the floor. His decision making is horrible (say what you want about the refs but for the most part Amir commits really dumb fouls). He has no jumpshot. He can't stay in the game because of his fouls. He doesn't position himself well.

    I know
    The positive
    He is freakishly athletic...He can outrun any PF or C on the court. He brings energy.

    Another thing he has going against him is two coaches haven't seen any potential in him, at least not enough to play him. He's not helping himself by fouling either. He can't even win the battle against himself, he takes himself out of the game all the time.

    I do believe there are some teams that are great matchups for Amir though, the Bulls being one of them. He must be deep in the doghouse becuase he should be able to get some burn against teams like that.

    I hope he turns into something, but in order for him to get in the rotation he's going to have to work on his game alot.
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    MC saw so much potential in him that he named him a starter right out of the gate... as a 21 year old.

    He then saw such good results from it that he made the infamous comments "we don't want Amir on the court, we need him on the court."

    He then 2nd guessed himself, 3rd guessed himself by naming him a starter again, 4th guessed himself by going with the senior citizen big men, tinkered with the lineup in other disgusting ways, mentally destroyed a solid team, and ended the multi-year home sell-out streak.

    Seriously, don't let the coach's decision shape your opinion. MC has made plenty of terrible decisions this year. No matter how many times he orders the team to go for 2 when we're down 5 with 15 seconds left, I will never forget that it is actually a terrible strategy.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I agree with TaS. As much as you would think two coaches being down on Amir would be a death sentence, when the coaches are Flip and MC, you have to check that premise.
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I can totally understand a coach putting him in the doghouse for a little while to make a point or to get his attention. Maybe he's a little slow in the head and he doesn't incorporate all the valuable lessons you teach him in practice.

    But how can you give up on the kid mid-season when the team is doing so terribly without him? As a coach, that is like giving up on yourself.

    Tyrus Thomas is just the first example that comes to mind. He was a mistake machine. Not just physically and mentally on the court, but he had the bad attitude, emotional outbursts, etc. He's been in and out of the dog-house a few times. They stuck with him. I think that Amir can be much better than Tyrus Thomas.
  17. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Pistons don't play bigs.
    We could've ruined Timmy D's career.
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We have just had really smart veteran big men during the whole modern era in Big Ben, Sheed, and Dyess. It is too easy for coaches to compare the young athletic guys to those dependable stalwarts. LB was trying to win the ship, so I will give him a pass. But Flip and MC are just nervous Nellies. They go for comfort when things get scary.
  19. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    back to the seniority arguement.
  20. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I'll give him another year I guess, but I won't hold my breath if he does not pan out. It's hard to blame any one player for their insufficient play (or in his case, lack of playing time) when you have an absolute idiot for coach.

    Of course that coach will probably be back next year as well.

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