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Amir Johnson?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by max, Apr 14, 2009.

  1. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    I don't think he lost the starting job. It was given to someone else. There was no reason for him to be removed from the starting line up. We were winning with him. I could see if he was replaced because we were losing as a result of his play but that was not the case.

    The real question would be; how many players drafted right out of high school by a team that was visiting the Eastern Conference Finals each year that had polished NBA Veterans already in his position took 4 years to crack the rotation??

    It's not like he went to the Clippers.
     
  2. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    Eva Mendes?

    Sorry Low, continue!
     
  3. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    For the 1000th time Amir wasn't given a position in the starting lineup, he earned it by doing things no one can see!
     
  4. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    for carrying luggage after his rookie year?
     
  5. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Since its inception, the award has been given to 15 different players. Dikembe Mutombo and Ben Wallace each won the award four times.
    Hence, there is some value to having re-signed Ben Wallace. Somehow, 2 Mil below the max hardly seems astronomical to me for a player with an exceptional level of performance ON THE COURT, such as Ben Wallace displayed. But, call it what you will.

    However, by the time Ben had 4 years in the league he was at least showing some returns and his play was at the very least a precursor of what he was to become. We have seen no such progression from Amir.

    Exactly, which is why until he starts performing well on a consistent basis, he should not be guaranteed any playing time over and above anyone else who HAS shown some level of consistency and/or production. Just saying something good happens when he plays (even if we don't know what) isn't good enough to warrant major minutes....at least IMO.
     
  6. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I wasn't implying you were, just that Curry replacing him in the SL cannot be considered a strong reason that highlights his shortcomings.
    I don't think he's the sole reason for our success (i do believe he's a major one), but i really believe that Joe tries his best not to interfere with the coaches decisions. He was so high on Darko and refused to trade him for so long, but it never translated into forcing the coaches to play Darko.

    Or if he did put that thought play Amir/Darko/etc in the coaches head they did it in the beginning of the season, and then went off on their own tangents.
    Which would be completely fine if this was applied to everybody and/or he got a chance to perform well on a consistent basis. It's hard to play get benched for 4 games, play, etc and be a consistent performer.

    Max has been arguably one of our most inconsistent performers all year, and he's still handed minutes. I would be fine if everyone was held to the same standards, but for some reason it seems to be reserved for Amir, Aaron, and oddly to a lesser degree Walter Hermann. Max,Kwame, and even Stuck are immune to this.
     
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    We only have two power forwards on the team. Jason Maxiell, and Amir Johnson. In game one, we got exactly 7 minutes from one of them, Jason Maxiell, prior to garbage time. You may not think either of these guys are all that great, but the fact they played so little meant we paired up two centers thru much of the game, wrecking any possibility that our defensive rotations would ever work.

    As soon as you name me another "deserving" power forward on the team, I will let you slide. Until then, hey, just like you can't play 5 point guards, nor 5 centers, you can't play without a point guard, or without a power forward. Both were extensively done by Curry in tonight's game.

    And how would you say we did with all those centers in there. Close to a 30 point lead by Cleveland after 3 quarters. You did not notice that we could not get out to shooters? You did not notice how many wide open shots Cleveland was getting, from virtually every spot on the floor? Please comment on our defensive rotations tonight with all those centers in. Please, I truly would love for you to explain to me why it was the right way for Curry to go.
     
  8. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    1st off, just because your name has PF next to it on the score sheet doesn't mean you should be on the floor.

    2nd...our defensive "rotations" look just like they have all season long IRREGARDLESS of who was on the floor. Sloppy, out of sync, and late to the party. Primarily because we have a defense that refuses to put any responsibility on the guards to stay in front of their man and relies solely on 7 footers to sprint around the court like Hussein Bolt. It's a lose/lose. You can't play basketball hoping your 7 footer is the quickest guy on the floor...gravity scoffs at you.

    I don't care if they play 8 centers in a 7 man rotation, it doesn't matter when your perimeter defense holds water like tissue paper. Just putting tall guys on the floor that you deem to be quick solves nothing when you defense is routinely reduced to a laughing stock by opposing guards.

    So Curry's substitution pattern is irrelevant with this roster and the "defense" they are supposedly playing. If the guards constantly get beat off the dribble, you can have freaking Hakeem Olajuwon in the middle and you're going to get your arse handed to you the same we DET is now.

    Besides, until arriving in DET, Dice AND Sheed were listed at PF's. So, to answer your question, BOTH of those guys should play over Amir/JMax at ALL TIMES. Even at 35 years of age, slow, and shooting from the perimeter they are more skilled and consistent than either of those two. Kwame is the only player on our roster who has legitimately been labeled a center throughout his career and just calling Sheed and Dice centers because we've been undersized since the departure of Eldon "Shaq Insurance" Campbell isn't going to cut it.
     
  9. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Amir played strong last night. Way to go, kid!
     
  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    So you admit you see the problem, that our centers can't rotate out to shooters. (But not mentioning the total lack of transition D, nor the lack of presence around the basket vs. cutters and drivers.) But you want to blame it all on Stuckey and Rip. And you are saying these two are so bad that we can't possibly ever win a game?

    Then why in the heck do you care for one second who plays power forward for us? As you mention, what we are doing is not working. Time for a change.

    PS, by your logic, when Dyess and Sheed are 70, they will still qualify as power forwards, since they once were power forwards. Nope, they have slowed down since we got them. Sheed, that was 5 years ago. Dyess, 4. Neither can begin to get over on defensive rotations compared to the average power forward in this league. Both only have enough left in the quicks department to play center in this league.
     
  11. RipBillupsRJC

    RipBillupsRJC Second Round Draft Pick

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    A 70-year old Sheed wouldn't be much different than the right-now Sheed: Cranky and slow.
     
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm going to chronicle the 8 minutes that Amir was on the court. We will only look at Cleveland's possessions.

    2nd Quarter-
    1. Delonte West loses the ball
    2. Delonte West misses 23 foot jumper
    3. Delonte West misses layup
    4. Varejao missses layup
    5. Lebron gets fouled hard by Amir (3 FT's made)
    6. Lebron gets fouled by Afflalo (2 misses)
    1:51, Cleveland was 0-3 shooting, turned it over once, got 2 offensive rebounds, and drew 2 fouls + a technical foul for 3 points.

    4th Quarter-
    1. Wally Z gets his head taken off by Amir (makes 2 FT's)
    2. Delonte West loses ball, WH steal
    3. Delonte West bad pass, WB steal
    4. Joe Smith misses layup
    5. D. Gibson misses 3-pointer (Lebron comes back in game)
    6. Mo Williams offensive foul, WB draws charge
    7. LeBron misses 19-foot jump shot
    8. Joe Smith gets fouled by WH (makes 1, misses 1 FT)
    9. LeBron turns the ball over
    10. Zydrunus blocked by Maxiell
    11. Zydrunus gets called for 3 in the paint
    12. Mo Williams gets fouled by WB (makes 1, misses 1 FT)
    5:46, Cleveland was 0-4 shooting, turned it over 5 times, got 0 offensive rebounds, and was fouled 3 times, resulting in 4 points off free throws.

    So, in total: Cleveland failed to make a single basket when Amir was on the court. They averaged almost a turnover per minute (had their pocket picked, had a pass stolen, got blocked, got called for a charge, got a 3-second violation, Lebron stepped out of bounds...) all in the span of 8 minutes. Cleveland was 0-3 in the paint. They were 0-4 on jump shots. If this trend would have continued for 48 minutes, Cleveland would have ended the game with 42 points, all on free throws.

    Now, obviously, this is a pretty small sample size. I'm not suggesting that Cleveland is incapable of making a basket with Amir in the game. But this sample is just a good example of the type of defensive chaos that happens when we have hyperactive help defense. It is also a good example of effective fouling. Cleveland went to the line 5 times and missed 4 free throws. No baskets were conceded. Every shot in the paint was challenged. Lebron was tackled by Amir and Wally Z was basically closelined by Amir.

    Amir and Maxiell are our enforcers for better or for worse.
     
  13. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    throw out the entire 4th dude...that was garbage time
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It was garbage time until our 20-2 run forced Lebron and Big Z back in the game.

    Amir went up against Cleveland for 5 possessions against their scrubs and 7 possessions against Lebron and their starters.
     
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    When our starters came back in the game, it was a 9 point game with 4 minutes to go. Here was Cleveland's next 5 possessions:
    1. LeBron fouled by AA (makes 2 FT's)
    2. West fouled by Rip (makes 2 FT's)
    3. Williams fouled by WB (makes 2 FT's)
    4. Williams makes layup
    5. LeBron makes jump shot
    10 points in 5 offensive possessions (on pace to score 160 in a 48-min game).

    At that point, it was a 14 point game with 1:00 to go and that was all she wrote.
     
  16. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    okay fine, i'll use your exact same logic.

    herrmann was +18 and cleveland didn't score a basket when he was in the game. clearly we need him on the court as much as possible.
     
  17. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Man, Delonte West sucks.
     
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Did you catch my statement about small sample size? I would never claim that an 8 minute stint could be extrapolated over the entire game. In this case, that would mean that the Cavs would complete an NBA game with 0 FG's, which is obviously ludicrous.

    But I agree that they shouldn't have taken a guy who was +18 out of the game when the other team hadn't scored a basket with him on the court. Maybe wait until Cleveland scored once or twice first and then say, OK, Herrmann isn't working out.
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I was also thinking that as I typed his name over and over!

    Conversely, Will Bynum was showing up a lot defensively.
     
  20. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    A) Yes, Stuckey and Rip are bad enough defensively that it severely hinders any ability for this team to be a defensive powerhouse.

    B) I DON'T CARE WHO PLAYS POWER FORWARD FOR US. I've said this over and over and over again. That's why I keep having to argue with those of you continue to wail at the alter of Amir the Magic Dragon. It doesn't matter because Amir is not the answer. It doesn't bother me that Sheed and Dice play over the Magic Dragon and JMax because you're trading one kind of half-assed result for another. It's a lateral move. There are some things the young guys do well just as there are things the vets do well that the young guys can't do. NONE OF THEM are going to be able to carry this entire team defensively if the guard's defense isn't improved/upgraded. Those two guys just aren't good enough. Period. They aren't the solution, so I'm not going to waste my breathe crying for PT for either of them. If they play...great....if they don't play....great...

    I don't care.


    C) When they are 70, they will still be PFs, and most likely still be better than the Magic Dragon and the Baby Eater.
     

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