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Amir Johnson?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by max, Apr 14, 2009.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't think it was that. Those guys were more consistent, didn't need to develop, played fundamentally sound, knew the system well, etc. As a coach, it is more comforting having someone like Dyess on the floor than someone like earlyDarko, or Amir. The problem as I see it is that the potential instantly becomes limited when you take development out of the equation. If your team already has the goods to win it all (like we did in '04), then that works.

    This year it was clear that we were not one of the top 5 teams in the league. So what's the point in going with the dependable vets? To sneak into the 8th playoff spot? Arguably, that is the worst possible outcome for an NBA season. No chance at a title and no chance at winning the lottery.
     
  2. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Cavs proved they're the real deal. When it's over we'll know where we are.
     
  3. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    I think it all depends on what you expect from him. Are you looking for a guy that is going to get you 20 and 10 or are you looking for a guy that is going to get you 10 and 10 while blocking/altering shots and playing good defense?

    There is no doubt in my mind that with coaching and maturity he will become very good player. He won't be an all star (I don't think) :confused: but he will be a player that will help you WIN games. He does the little things that every team needs to be successful.

    I see him in the mold of Varejo, Noah and even Rodman. Those guys just fly all over the place making plays. They harass you and score if given an easy opportunity. They have more years of experience then AJ has at this point and have benefitted from going to good college programs with good coaches. I don't know how much coaching they actually do in the D-league. With the revolving doors they have I am not sure what they can teach.

    The way I look at AJ is he basically got out of high school and has been trying to find his way with very little direction and mixed signals. He tore up the d-league where fouls aren't counted. He came to the team this year and was named a starter and told "we need you on the floor". Then he was benched in favor of Max, who in my opinion, doesn't produce as well.

    Amir needs a coach, weight and playing time. He can score underneath (although that hook isn't pretty) if given the ball. He can rebound and defend. He does get called for fouls and I honestly think the officials would get accustomed to his play with more time. He doesn't complain or showboat. He hustles and plays hard but is out of control at times.

    Given the right environment he will blossom. The problem we have is that the whole team has gone backwards this year under MC. Still hoping that new management gives Laimbeer a shot at running this team.
     
  4. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Idea for next poll:
    Who will Amir be playing for when he has his Incredible Hulk moment and tears up his jersey?
     
  5. HelloIDistance

    HelloIDistance First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree with you on Curry. He is a horrible NBA coach. But you have to give some merit to the fact that Curry and Flip have basically put Amir Johnson in the 10th man role. A great player doesn't just sit on the bench guys let's be realistic. Its not some grand conspiracy.

    This is why I don't understand why people hate on Stuckey, but then go and jump on the Amir bandwagon. Amir basically relies solely on his athleticism. That's pretty much it. He positions himself horribly when boxing out. He commits really dumb fouls and makes stupid decisions.

    To say we never develop players is one thing, but what if we just don't have good players to develop? This is why I'm excited about Stuckey, he is actually a player that we drafted that we can develop. He has actual potential and is already pretty polished compared to Amir. He will be at worst a solid rotation player in his NBA career, at best I believe he'll be an allstar. Same thing with Tayshaun Prince, we drafted him he got his shot and he didn't let it go. Amir has gotten chances with two coaches and he didn't hold on. Another great example, Will Bynum. He got his chance and look at him. He's playing great and he's playing in a way that he can't be taken out of the rotation. Bynum fought his way into the rotation and with his play refuses to be taken out. Amir Johnson didn't do this.
     
  6. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Both J Max and Amir are probably slotted one spot too high on this team. Max should probably be the 5th big and Amir should be out of the league.

    Both guys are too small to play regularly, they don't rebound and between them they don't have one offensive move. Neither of them have added anything to their games since they've been here.

    Max at least sometimes gives tangible reasons to play. If he had a post game they could play him at SF and he would have tremendous value to the team. Without that he's the 5th big that you play in 3 games in 4 night situations and in early blowouts when his limitations don't hurt and his plethora of dunks might spark the team.

    How long are they going to carry this cadre of undersized PF to match up with the worst teams in the L?
     
  7. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I'm just about over Amir Johnson. Despite is amazing athleticism, I don't think he has the concentration, focus, or maybe smarts for the NBA game. Just like Darko, people are wowed by his potential, but it never really seems to pan out.

    Amir was signed to play for Louisville, but couldn't focus enough in high school to make the minimum eligibility requirements for entrance. Frankly I don't think he has the head to play in the NBA. Despite some occasional flashes of quickness and some cool highlight moments, most of the time he looks alot like the last pick of the draft to me.

    Hopefully he banked most of that cash Joe gave him.
     
  8. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    You won't really know Amir's potential til we trade/release him. We'll find out then. If pop, Guru LA coach, or LB snap him up, then we shoulda kept him. If the KNICKS pick him up, then we made the right move....
     
  9. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    You say we forgot something? No, I personally study the stats all season long. I can tell you for instance - Amir's win percentage has stayed steady all year, starting or coming off the bench.

    Further, Dyess came off the bench plenty this year, as did JMAX. And they have two of the lowest win percentages on the team. (Dyess the lowest at 36%, JMAX at 41%.)

    Basically, the rest of your above rant about how bad Amir is - just belittles the actual stats. Again, so far, we win 54% of the time that Amir goes out on the floor.

    You did get one thing right. He is freakishly athletic.

    More on the stats. Just a rehash. Amir shows positive when paired with any Piston, save Dyess. Dyess - negative when paired with anyone except Sheed. (Sheed, being our most positive player, it makes sense)

    You can ignore the stats all you want. The fact remains, when Amir plays, we have a pretty good chance of outscoring the other team.

    Also, since our starters play with the other starters, they should tend to do well on the plus minus. Its our bench players, who play with a lot of other bench players, who should be at a disadvantage. Especially with Curry, who never uses anything even resembling a regular bench rotation this year. (Not that the starters have been much more defined.) So, yes, a bench player does play vs. the opposing bench, but with his own bench players.

    So why not compare players who have seen pretty much the same mix this season, some bench, some starting. Amir and Dyess are very good comparisons indeed. Both have played off the bench a lot. Both have started a lot. And they happen to compete directly for minutes. We have used the Amir / Sheed pairing to start games, and now we have been using the Dyess / Sheed pairing to start games.

    Two very comparable players. Amir, 54% wins. Dyess 36% wins.

    Dyess has his uses. But he has no lateral movement. So you want Dyess in there - who does not even get to the play, or Amir who does get to the play, and sometimes fouls. Me, I will take the guy who actually gets to the plays.
     
  10. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    If Amir had worked hard enough to get a college scholarship, he'd probably just be getting out now and maybe have a shot in the second round of the draft...or maybe not. Instead, he's guaranteed $3.7M next season on top of $10+M he's already received. Pretty sweet coin for a guy 22 years old. Life is weird.

    There's part of me that thinks Joe's handling of Amir has been even dumber than him drafting Darko.
     
  11. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    You are comparing Amir to guys with college experience. Amir is a year younger then Stuckey and 3 years younger then Max. Tay came into the league after playing 4 years at a very good basketball school,being a third team all-american and still sat the bench his first year in the league. Will Bynum played college ball and went over seas for two years after not being able to make a squad. Now these are great players??

    My personal opinion is that it is hard to draft a young guy in the NBA as a project unless you are a really bad team that is going to put him on the floor night in and night out and COACH him. When you bring in unpolished players and they sit on the bench (Darko) or go to the d-league (Amir) and you don't teach them skills; what do you expect from them??

    I may be in the minority, but I don't think when we drafted Darko or Amir, we had a plan. WE didn't have and still don't have coaches to teach them the things they need to be successful. They didn't have the college experience which is the apprenticeship to the NBA. They were drafted young and left to try and find their own ways.

    You get what you sow and if you buy a seed and throw it on the ground without taking care of it; you get nothing in return but wasted money.
     
  12. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think your imagination is correct. In games that matter, he is not even getting a look. You don't go much backward than this.

    He will be traded.
     
  13. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    More proof Curry has no idea WTH he's doing when it comes to Amir;

    Detroit Pistons looking ahead to playoffs, will rest players against Heat - Detroit Pistons Basketball: News, Blogs, Photos, Audio, Schedule & Stats - MLive.com

    Max is ahead of him in the rotation, but whenever someone needs to start it's Amir :doh:

    edited to add;

    Am i the only one that finds it hilarious that we are "resting players" b/c we've secured the um 8th seed . . .
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Somebody please explain the abberation with the stats.

    Amir's +/- is spectacular. Not just this year, but in prior years as well. Not just off the bench, but as a starter. Not only that, but when he doesn't play, the Detroit Pistons suck. If you ignore all 25% of the time when Amir was on the court this year and only focus on the 75% of the time when he was either taking a breather or getting a DNP-CD, we were the 7th worst team in the NBA.

    On court.... we are a top 5 team.

    Off court.... we would have missed the playoffs completely, by a lot.


    It is totally possible that there is an innocent explanation. "He sucks" doesn't quit explain it. Either does "he's not progressing" or "he fouls too much."

    Also, please explain why the stats lie when for multiple years in a row, our team is terrible with Maxiell on the floor.
     
  15. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Whale all you want. Experimental ( developmental) phases are done. Placement on the team is a contributing factor for a reality based on certain components:
    • placement on the floor (are you a 1-2-3-4-5)
    • adaptability for movement outside of comfort zone if positions must be mixed.
    • are you productive regardless when mixed
    • specialist who only can do one thing need not apply
    • beautiful refinement can be overcome by grittiness
    How are the decisions made from those (hopefully) who have walked-the-talk and what is their master template for decision making?
     
  16. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    If we let him go and he gets serious playing time with his new team; he will make them better then they are. He may go to a crappy team and they may still be crappy with him playing for them but they will improve.

    He could make a difference for us playing 10-15 minutes in the play offs but I just don't have much faith in MC knowing this and knowing when to use him. He could get us a few extra possessions which are key in the play offs if given a chance.
     
  17. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Great observation, that's the reason why I love this kid so much. :nod:
     
  18. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Your are right at this point, he dosen't only look like, he's actually 56, last but 5 overall pick, 2005.

    Sometimes. just sometimes, I fantasticated if we could compare him with Josh Smith, Alt.
     
  19. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i agree with ernie and linwood. amir has shown almost nothing this year. this is his 4th year yet he hasn't worked on fixing his jumpshot, hasn't gained bulk, tried to develop a post-game, etc. he is weak around the basket, gets stripped too easily, and isn't a smart defender.

    if i'm joe and i can get rid of his contract this summer for either straight up $ or to help not have as much cap space while signing better frontcourt players, i do that in a heartbeat.
     
  20. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    totally agree with this
     

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