1. Football Picks Survivor is done for 2014. Congrats to billlaimbeer from The Pistons Forum

Amir traded?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by The Palace Artest, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,424
    Likes Received:
    880
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    Gotta justify the trade.
     
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,836
    Likes Received:
    3,245
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
  3. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,341
    Likes Received:
    530
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Do you get why we would try to go top heavy? With 1 big name FA, how would we possibly contend if he is surrounded by a roster full of rooks and min. wage guys? I don't think DET has EVER tried that model and I can't remember when it has ever worked. It just seems contradictory to everything we know about this team/franchise.
     
  4. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,480
    Likes Received:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Re: trade value

    I am all for blasting the cheap owner but its league rules that you have to be under the cap after signing an FA. Unless he is your own player which they won't be.
     
  5. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,424
    Likes Received:
    880
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    Re: trade value

    Cap is tough to figure out sometimes or something....
     
  6. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,424
    Likes Received:
    880
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    Amir Johnson: Living the High Life in Milwaukee
     
  7. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,999
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's not the point. It's that Joe's pointless moves are justified by some genius trade/FA signing in the works that usually ends up being a player the quality of a Charlie Villanueva at best and a Nazr on average.,

    If Charlie Villanueva is what we are clearing more money for then Joe's an idiot.
     
  8. G-man

    G-man Starter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,423
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    g & g gas station
    Harsh assessment LP.

    We just finished a six year finals run with a team assembled in the whole by Dumars. Certainly there have been some dogs that passed through the system but in the big picture, he's done a better job reaching the top tier than roughly 28 other GMs on an annual basis for some time.

    But he can't pick, train and coach each player. It's a team concept and team concepts sometimes break down. (I always have a hard time feeling sorry for guys basically making 800k a year and up.)

    I'd rather have Dumars picking and trading tomorrow than about 25 of the other GMs. Should it happen, Charlie V can't possibly deliver less than Amir has unless he drowns guzzling Gatorade on the bench and falls over dead.
     
  9. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,424
    Likes Received:
    880
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    Very good points, G. Joe has done some good work. In the draft you can't always know what you are getting and I am sure if we analyze all of the GM's picks and trades, we'll find some doozies for sure.
     
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    16,211
    Likes Received:
    4,164
    Location:
    Michigan

    I heard that, too....and even though it was only Amir's first foul of the day, Coach Curry came into Joe's office and quickly pulled Amir from it.
     
  11. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Searching for the "D" in Detroit
    I thought Amir lost the "promising young big" tag a couple years ago?
     
  12. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,424
    Likes Received:
    880
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    I think he's still the "promising young big". But he may just remain there until he turns into the "promising old big"...

    :hoops:
     
  13. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,999
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes yiou can look it that way, or you can look at it as this team won one championship when it should have been at least 2. Joe D was content with keeping the status quo, winning just enough to maintain the illusiion of contending. He kept a coach that wasn't working for 3 years, never got any real bench help according to some, hired a rookie coach when the team was still intact, andnever got a back-up S wen year after year it was our biggest problem.

    He was stagnant whether by his design or the owner's or both, and he never really went for it for a team IMO that didn't need that much more. Rinse, wash, repeat.

    He has done a better job than other GM's, but t's hard to judge him against all of them b/c he had a team that was capable of winning it all and sat on his hands.

    H can't pick,train,etc each player but it's his job to know what talent looks like and how to assemble it properly, coach included. His last good move came a very long time ago. Since then he's been getting by.

    --------------

    Charlie Villanuela will probably cost 2-3 times as much and is not a starter on a championship team IMO. It's not a comparison w/ Amir, but more of why is this guy even important to go after or important enough to be clearing cap space over? Even with my dislike of some apects of Boozer & Amare's game. etc, i understand the push to quire someone of that 'tier".
     
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,944
    Likes Received:
    2,773
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    When I was younger, what they made didn't matter. As I get older (I'm Sheed's age), I haven't made my first million, Amir has already made $10 million and he's 10 years younger than me.

    We're not talking about Lebron, or Sidney Crosby, or Joey Harrington.

    We're talking about Amir Johnson.

    Now I'm a capitalist, and I am good with get what you can, while you can in negotiations.

    But I work my ass off to make a living, and it is very hard to sympathize with guys who are set for life at 25 without doing anything particularly noteworthy with their lives.

    So yes, I have a hard time sympathizing with people making 6 figures to play ball and be a rock star with the ladies.

    It's not like Joe screwed Amir. If anything, this is an opportunity for Amir, an opportunity it seems clear he wasn't getting here.

    It's like the CB trade. How can anyone blame Joe for doing CB wrong after last season? Amir can walk the walk or he'll be out of the league like Delfino. But Joe has set him and his family up for life and given the guy a lot of training and attention, even committing George David to be Amir's full time nanny in the D-League.
     
  15. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,755
    Likes Received:
    438
    It's a damn good circus as Rome burns. You will have to hunt hard for your own humanity. You know what is happening and that should be (and it may be the only thing left) enough. Don't expect much more. Be prepared to be always truthful with a jaundice eye.

    Once there was a flock of geese. They were kept in a wire cage, by a farmer. One day, one of the geese looked up and saw that there was no top to the cage. Excitedly, he told the other geese:
    "Look, look: There is no top. We may leave here. We may become free."
    Few listened, and none would turn his head to the sky.
    So, one day, he simply spread his wings and flew away...alone.

    Soren Kierkegaard
     
  16. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,480
    Likes Received:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    So far Joe is batting 100% as far as young projects scrapped that have not come back to haunt us. Will Amit be the 1st? I don't think they would have given up on him without knowing what they are doing.

    I am looking forward to new players and new projects.
     
  17. CarlosGallan

    CarlosGallan First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Puerto Sagunto
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,944
    Likes Received:
    2,773
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    That expedition was canceled by the quartermaster. Something about moldy canteens.
     
  19. G-man

    G-man Starter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,423
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    g & g gas station
    You're mad as hell and just can't take it anymore..

    Hey LP

    I've been following the Pistons for 35 years. Organizations are just like people, like families. They thrive and starve, they grow and they mold.
    It's the nature of all things living to change. As they change things around them change. Dynamics are altered. They don't live in a vacuum, exterior forces are always in play. There is no sure thing, no guarantees.

    You can't take it personally. You can't hate change. Change is.

    It's like Clint Eastwood's line from the movie Unforgiven. Gene Hackmans lying on the floor looking up at Eastwood aiming a Sharps 50 calibre buffalo gun in his face, Hackman says "I was building a cabin, I don't deserve this!", Eastwoods response, "Deserves got nothing to do with it." BOOM

    The Pistons on the floor and on the bench lost those games. The Spurs, the Heat, Cleveland and Boston won those games. That's it. Dumars as GM built a Detroit team good enought to position itself to play in those games. His tinkering or non-tinkering kept that horse at the well for six years. In and of itself, thats no small feat.

    Yes in retrospect, in hindsight, looking at all the dynamics each team brought to the floor things could've been done to alter the dynamics. But in blaming Dumars one unfairly discredits the action of opposing forces, the opposing team. And it totally eliminates acknowledging the effect of the NBA's third rail, officiating and ignores untimely player injuries.

    It's like looking at the world with one bloody eye in a head that doesn't swivel.
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,944
    Likes Received:
    2,773
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    It's really great to have you around G-man.
     

Share This Page