Andre Drummond thread

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by webz, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,936
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    Gender:
    Male
    Another double double?

    What a boss.
  2. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,161
    Likes Received:
    786
    Great article here with some awesome tidbits:

    Detroit Pistons' Andre Drummond has found a time-tested mentor in teammate Corey Maggette | MLive.com

    Most key for me were these two quotes:

    Maggette's seems a pretty potent way to put in perspective what it's like for a kid to be playing in the NBA, and the bit about Frank having to give Drummond a "tongue-lashing" for his "light-heartedness" indicates that the coaches and staff realize that, if Drummond is ever going to grow up, he needs to learn to work hard and treat this as a job. This, to me, is the crux of the reason that they're really hesitant about starting him; they want him to get better, and they know his attitude has to be more consistently "adult" before his game can get as good as it's going to be.

    In other words, they're not treating him with kid gloves, they're treating him like an adult while knowing - but not accepting - that he's still a kid. This all isn't about talent development so much as about attitude development; I've never seen it done outright before at this level, I'm floored that they're doing it, and I absolutely love that they are. (It really helps that everyone on the team seems to be on the same page with this.)
    roscoe36 likes this.
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,336
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Thanks for posting that. It's the part of a player that the coaches see and the fans don't.

    I trust that LFrank will do the right things... whereas I would have been very suspicious of Brown (overbearing), Flip (underbearing), Curry (overwhelmed), and Kuester (wrong personality).

    While it's really boring watching Maxiell playing out of position, the coach has to manage the development of a teenager carefully. That probably means making Drummond earn minutes by playing AND acting the right way. The key to that system is coming through with the rewards when the player does the right things.
  4. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,463
    Likes Received:
    2,409
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I have some leadership responsibilities in my job.
    I always lead from the position of "I assume that you can do what I ask of you perfectly until you prove to me otherwise".
    I think that it's inhibiting to people when you come at it from the perspective of "You're new and your probably an idiot. I'm gonna take it really slow with you until you show me that you can handle the expectations that I have for you".

    I've found that having a little faith and some high expectations really shortens the learning curve with new people.

    Start him.
    What's the worst thing that can happen?
    roscoe36 likes this.
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,125
    Likes Received:
    1,986
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    This was so hard for me to learn. Leading became enjoyable and much less stressful once I realized it.

    I think we have a built in bias to tighten up when the stakes get high. And even the perception of high stakes creates a lot of extra stress which hurts things like being able to think clearly, react logically, exercise patience.

    It's very hard to overcome that basic animal programming but totally awesome when we can.
  6. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,463
    Likes Received:
    2,409
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    It's worked well for me and I think my team appreciates it.
    Responsibility really empowers people and can be one of the most motivational elements to a person.

    As a manager, you have to be pretty perceptive of your team. I can pretty much tell if someone has what it takes by the questions that they ask and the approach to problem solving that they use. If someone askes me a question about a project a week into it that should have been asked the first day, I know we're in trouble and I need to get them some help.

    As long as Andre askes the right questions and makes mistakes that a rookie NBA Center is expected to make, I have no problems putting him out there. It sounds simplistic but the more minutes he gets, the more experiences he'll have. I'd rather him have some negative experiences than no experiences at all.
  7. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,713
    Likes Received:
    1,367
    Gender:
    Male
    Am I the only one who is concerned that the primary mentor for our prized rookie is an expiring contract which we may or may not deal before the season is over?
  8. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,161
    Likes Received:
    786

    How many teenagers do you have working for you, and how many millions of people are microjudging every success and failure that those team members make?
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,125
    Likes Received:
    1,986
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I work with teenagers all the time and it works awesome with them.

    As far as the judges, who cares? You can't do anything about what other people think. You can only do your best, whether a million, one or no one is watching.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,336
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    19 year olds are fairly crazy. Drummond seems like he's way above average in terms of maturity though.

    Here is how he did in the pre-season:

    2nd in pts/36 at 19.6. (behind Maggette, who had small sample size)
    1st in FG% at .623
    1st in rebounding at 12.8 (way ahead of everybody else)
    2nd to last in assist rate (just ahead of Maxiell!)
    middle of the pack in steals
    1st in block rate (6 times higher rate than Monroe)
    very low turnovers
    average 6 personal fouls per 36 min (same as Daye, Maxiell, and Russian Gentleman...Jerebko was also close behind)


    So, pros to starting him:

    Scoring, efficiency, rebounding, shot blocking

    cons:
    high foul rate, need to break him emotionally before rebuilding him or trading him
  11. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    164
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kaohsiung, Taiwan
    Bring along gradually is a general way to raise a professional and assume good until prove otherwise is a general way to filter people.
  12. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    14,738
    Likes Received:
    2,840
    Location:
    Michigan
    This is the strategy that I will use for the 3 rookies on my fantasy Keeper League team. They will ride the pine for the first half of the season. They will have to earn their playing time in practice.
    Laimbrane and brofmfa like this.
  13. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,161
    Likes Received:
    786
    As a teacher and coach, I also work with teenagers all the time, and you're right - treating them like adults works awesome.

    However, professional basketball is a different world from anything we're used to. If a teen cares and makes a mistake where you work, I'm sure you'll agree that you can pat them on the back and tell them that as long as they don't do it again, caring is what counts - and they'll get better. That's not the case with the NBA; these guys aren't working menial, low-wage, low-responsibility jobs. Teens (and, admittedly, many adults) can be emotionally fragile, and while it's easy to say "you can't do anything about what other people think," remember back to when you were in high school and think about how much you assumed everyone cared about everything you did all the time. Now imagine that same self in a world where everyone actually did care about you, where your agent and your publicist are telling you to interact with your fans on Twitter in order to build your brand, where you are the next great hope for a team with championship pedigree. Imagine going out and being the starting center, and having a bad game where you get schooled by Kevin Garnett, grabbing 4 points and 3 boards and fouling out in 22 minutes of play after shooting 1-6 on FTs. Imagine what it would be like for you knowing that the team is counting on you and that you let them down. You want to be accepted and respected by these guys that are mostly older than you, you want to do them right, and you fail. You get fans calling you "soft" or "lazy." You got Garnett in your ear - a guy that you've looked up to for years - telling you that you suck, that you're weak, that you should just "go home, little kid, this is a man's game." You start to doubt yourself.

    Meanwhile, your team is counting on you, and by playing you is telling you that you are where they expect you to be. But as a teenager you've never dealt with this stuff on this level before. You magnify your own mistakes - that's what teenagers do. You start to overcorrect on your free throws. You take an extra split second on your defensive positioning. You go up for a layup and it's blocked, so you don't go up as hard next time.

    You can see where I'm going with this. I'm not saying that Detroit should treat him with "kid gloves," but they do have a better understanding of whether or not he's emotionally ready to be the focal point of a multi-hundred million dollar business. Is he physically capable? I don't think there's any doubt that he is, and he'll play. But is he ready to be "the man"? I don't think so. Is he physically ready to go head-to-head for 30 minutes a game against the best in the business? Yes. Is he emotionally ready? I don't know. The Pistons' brass seems to believe that he isn't, otherwise he would start. They want him to be a harder worker than he ever has been before, and that is a personality trait that takes time to develop. If their goals are for him to go out and be a solid 10/10/2 starter that will help them get to the playoffs, well, he's there right now and they should start him. But if their goals are for him to be a 20/15/3 superstar that can put the team on his back and help lead them to a championship, then he you need to make sure he can handle it; if he has yet to develop the emotional fortitude and the initiative to do it on his own, then you need a carrot to dangle in front of him until he picks it up himself.

    I'm glad that the Pistons aren't expecting him to figure it out himself. I don't want them to bring him along slowly - I want them to tell him where he needs to be and then hold that line and wait for him to get there. In the meantime, yes, he needs to fine-tune a lot of his game, and he can do that getting 15-20 minutes a night off the bench. They can take that film and experience and go over it with him, and they can point to the vets (hopefully) and say so-and-so is starting because he's doing such-and-such. Points and boards and blocks aren't enough in a league where the talent gap is so small and where a single missed shot opportunity in the second quarter can be the difference in the outcome of the game. If you want Drummond to be where you expect that he can go, you tell him what you want out of him, show him how to do it, give him a taste of what he'll get when he gets there, and hold those expectations. That's what I see the Pistons doing, and I like it.
    round, Slippy, Mogilny and 2 others like this.
  14. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,463
    Likes Received:
    2,409
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Hmmm, what would inspire a 19 year old 7-footer?
    ...Hearing Mason yelling your name in pre-game intros as fireworks are shooting off behind you?; ...Hearing the crowd go crazy as you run on to the floor and high-five your teamates? ...Knowing that your coach expects that you're gonna make some mistakes but he still thinks that you can hold your own against Omer Asik?

    or

    Sitting on the bench watching your fellow rookie classmates get a head start on their careers while you try to earn some tablescraps of playing time in practice.

    I don't think Andre will be emotionally damaged if Kevin Garnett gets in his grill. I think being stoked that your coach has enough faith in you to check a hall-of-famer would more than outweigh any Austin Daye-like wussyness.
    If you're afraid of a player being THAT emotionally weak, you shouldn't have drafted him in the first place.

    Andre Drummond should start tonight.
  15. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    789
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I don't know if we've had a rookie with the same impact and Drummond since Dumars became GM. Monroe took a while to get acclimated and Knight - you could see the potential as he took his licks on the floor. I think both are good prospects but Drummond does something for this team and fits a certain chemistry that he should start sooner than later. Starting from the get go? I'm personally not going that far but I don't want to wait 2 months for an injury to thrust him into an already weak front court.
  16. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,713
    Likes Received:
    1,367
    Gender:
    Male
    There's nobody in the team that brings what Drummond does to the team. I fully expect him to earn the starting spot by Christmas.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,336
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Judging on the pre-season only, we don't have any player that provides the same impact as Drummond.
  18. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,951
    Likes Received:
    1,138
    I don't think Frank starting Max over Dre is because he considers Max to bring more wins, but because of the work ethic reasons Laimbrane mentioned. I'm fine with this as long as it is for these reasons and he gets 20+ mins a game.
  19. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,161
    Likes Received:
    786
    You're right. I expect that the Pistons hope that all of that stuff motivate him to work hard and earn it.
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,336
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Maxiell was really good tonight btw.

    Until Drummond takes the starting spot, the good news is that we always will have at least one real center on the floor that is a threat at both ends.
    linwood and brofmfa like this.

Share This Page