Arroyo (efficient)..Hunter (effective)

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Jimm, Feb 10, 2006.

  1. Jimm

    Jimm Second Round Draft Pick

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    All this season i have been reading about how many assists Arroyo would average if he played 48 minutes.Most of that talk is on the detnews forum thankfully.

    Being is Australia ive seen only a few Pistons games this season.In those games ive watched Arroyo play and be efficient in dishing out assist's,the problem i see with him is that he will play a 2 man game with Mcdyess too often, and not get his other team mates involved enough.To me that makes Arroyo EFFICIENT on the court but not EFFECTIVE.

    Now with Hunter the pistons wont get big assist's numbers,but he is Effective when on the court,why do i say his effective on the court?
    Better chemistry on the court with the other player's,then what makes Hunter so valuable to the team is his intangibles that he bring's on the hardwood.

    So i would be more comfortable in having the EFFECTIVE Hunter on the court then the EFFICIENT Arroyo.
  2. DaviaG-Rap

    DaviaG-Rap First Round Draft Pick

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    How the hell do you know he has better chemistry? He hasn't played a minute this season. We don't know how well he will fit in with Mo Evans and Delfino. Besides we are talking about 12 minutes a game. NOT A BIG DEAL.
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I believe Jimm has watched Hunter play, and he has watched Arroyo play. Arroyo only has chemistry with Dice. If you can't see that, well I can and that makes Jimm and I both geniuses.

    It can't possibly be any worse than how Arroyo fits in with them...

    Exactly. Breath out. Breath in. Breath out. Feel better yet?
  4. Jimm

    Jimm Second Round Draft Pick

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    How do i know Hunter is a better fit for the piston's over arroyo?
    Easy mate,ive watched Hunter since he came into the leauge,Hunter is proven himself to be EFFECTIVE here with this roster.

    Now Arroyo and this roster doesnt mix,im not the 1st to say this.
  5. DaviaG-Rap

    DaviaG-Rap First Round Draft Pick

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    Don't patronize me Microwave. Arroyo's chemistry with Dyess is at least productive. Hunter doesn't do squat on offense. All I can say is I hope Lindsey has been working on his shot the past 4 months- he could build a new arena with all the bricks he heaved up last season.
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You know someone else more capable of the task? ;)

    I agree. They would kick butt in a game of 2 on 2.

    Yep but he is a game changer on defense. Can you say that Arroyo is a game changer on offense? Do you think Arroyo has one defensive game in him like Hunter did offensively in the Finals against the Spurs?

    I believe those were donated to Darko's new house.
  7. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Nah. Maybe an annex. No one man could do it in a single season. Now if your willing to include the playoffs.......
  8. DaviaG-Rap

    DaviaG-Rap First Round Draft Pick

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    "Yep but he is a game changer on defense. Can you say that Arroyo is a game changer on offense? Do you think Arroyo has one defensive game in him like Hunter did offensively in the Finals against the Spurs?"

    Hunter's defense is not game changing, he is a "good" defender. Artest's defense is game changing... Ben's defense is game changing. Hunter had one dominate defensive quarter vs. the Heat in the playoffs. AI, Wade, and Ginobili still all scored above their season averages against us.

    Hunter only has a major impact against backups, and usually his defense is negated by his poor offense. That 17 point game in the Finals was certainly welcomed, but the Pistons dominated from start to finish. It would have been nice if that performance came in oh Game 7?

    What exactly would Arroyo have to do defensively to equal Hunter's 17 point offensive explosion? That was a dumb question.
  9. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Not that I ain't on your side, but

    Hunter is not that great of a defender, unless he matches up real well with a certain player, like Wade, who is otherwise killing us. In the Miami series, Hunter absolutely was instrumental in us getting us to the next round. Hunter matched up with Wade quite well. Yes, Wade still scored a lot, but not on Hunter.

    In the SA series, you are right, Hunter was pretty useless. He had the one good offensive game, like you said, when we hardly needed it. For the series, Hunter once again ended up shooting very poorly, and remains the worst playoff performer on shooting in the whole history of the NBA.
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Re: Not that I ain't on your side, but

    Here we go with the Hunter bashing already... he fits this team... he creates offense by defensive turns... no he is not good at setting up his teamates... much better at SG on offense... this is very possible with Chauncey matched up in the backcourt....
    Arroyo can't shoot consistently either... instead he lets whoever he's defending blow by... that's a liability.
    Too bad we can't morph these guys.

    I think we know the score:
    Dave E doesn't care much for Hunter and Sheed... likes the foreign players better ... ditto Lee, BBallJay & 16.... just fill in the blanks when these gus are disscussed.
  11. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Re: Not that I ain't on your side, but

    I disagree. I do think Hunter is a great defender. Everyone has matchup problems at some point. Ben is a GREAT defender, but doesn't match up well against guys like Shaq or to a lesser extent Duncan.

    I think having both Arroyo and Hunter available will be a huge lift for us. Both offer completely different looks and can be inserted in different situations as needed. Assuming of course that Flip ever decided to play the bench.

    But I like Mercury's suggestion the best. Morphing the 2 together would be the perfect solution! Plus it would free up a roster spot!:laugh:
  12. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Guys Arroyo is not a bad player at all. He's as good as any backup PG in the league right now, except Devin Harris......or some other teams young PG of the future ie Raymond Felton. Although the dude inIndy seems pretty legit. Fellas cut him a little slack please, he's the backup to arguably the best PG in the league this year, Arroyo's efforts will always pale in comparison.

    However I wouldn't mind seeing a trade with Atl for Delks Expiring deal. Give Delfino the backup PG spot offensively and Hunter the spot defensively then next year we draft a youngin', and sign a vet and let the draftee, the vet, and Ack battle for the spot next season.
  13. DaviaG-Rap

    DaviaG-Rap First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: Not that I ain't on your side, but

    You are so hypocritical. I am a Hunter basher now? Why don't you call out the Arroyo haters who have been much harsher in their criticisms? It's not that I don't care much for Lindsey, he certainly has a role on this team at SG (like you said), but he is not a better player than Carlos, and his return will not transform the bench or be the difference in a Championship.

    Also I think you are deluding yourself- Hunter does not create many turnovers on defense. You are thinking of the Pitbulls, and the bigger half of that combo is gone.
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Re: Not that I ain't on your side, but

    Because they don't post here. You will be hard pressed to find a lot of Arroyo bashing going on.

    We all like Carlos, but to say his game doesn't have limitations, or as Jimm mentioned at the start, that Hunter might be the better fit, seems reasonable.

    In fact, Jimm's pretty much conceded that Arroyo is better (more efficient), but his style of play doesn't suit this offense well and that would make Hunter more effective because he can bring a defensive game.

    Carlos has Hunter (not that it needs to be a competition) on passing and ball handling. He owns him by a lot. But Hunter owns Carlos on the other side of the ball. When it comes to jump shooting, it's really a wash. Neither of them is a great shooter or finisher.
  15. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I don't think Hunter will be very effective if Flip doens't play him.
  16. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    All of the comparisons thus far have been about player to player, when IMO their overall effectiveness will depend more on how Flip uses them. I don't believe we stress a faster paced game with CA as his skills dictate. I wonder if Flip will employ traps, presses, and other aggressive defenses with Hunter. Both guys can be pretty mediocre, and exposed in a playoff atmosphere, otherwise.
  17. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Well said Lemon... agreed... play Arroyo when we need some points... Hunter when we need to protect a lead or need some enegy.
    There's no ball & chain here... if either one isn't getting it done we can sub them out.... the ultimate test will be how the 5 man unit performs against the opponents...individual stats won't tell the story.
    Lindsay can disrupt an offense by pressing and taking them out of their early options... nobody will see that on a stat sheet.
  18. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Dave, this isn't personal... it's just that you guys never give Sheed, Evans or Hunter credit when they do well (sometimes Lee will begrudgingly give Mo some props and he likes Sheed)... yet you never mention when Delfino, Darko or Arroyo suck eggs.... is this really being impartial and fair?
    I was very high on bringing Arroyo here... and this years 1st rounder was not a big sacrifice... it's just that his good performances (including D) are becoming less frequent... I'm getting tired of seeing just about every backup PG having good games against Carlos.
    Mo will put up good games apprx. 3 out of 4 times where Delfino's is more like 1 out of 3... otherwise he has little impact... at least Delfino is showing improvement on defense and looks like he's got an offensive game (more actual results would be nice).
    I think Flip will use Hunter smarter than LB... he should always be matched up with a playmaker instead of him controlling the offense.... there's some nice potential for success there if he's used right.
    After the regulars have had their starting minutes... Arroyo with Rip and Hunter with Chauncey could be effective.
  19. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    i still think arroyo and mike james should be traded. arroyo would fit in with toronto and james would be perfect here.
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This is more realistic than one might think. James has good chemistry with the guys here, he's proven he can score, and score in the clutch.

    Not the ball handler Arroyo is, but definitely another weapon on both sides of the ball.

    And my Toronto peeps keep telling me that something ain't right about the way Sam Mitchell and Mike James are interacting. That trouble is brewing between those two...

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