As San Antonio Goes, So Does Detroit

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, May 30, 2006.

  1. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    During the off-season, the Pistons pee pawed around and picked up who, yes grasshopper, Dale Davis & Maurice Evans, to do what? Take us to the next level. I think Joe went for the gamble this off-season, I even thought that our bench was solid based on the way they played during the pre-season, silly me.

    During the off-season, what did the spurs do? They picked up two old antiques in Nick van Exel and Michael Finley.

    We see where they are sitting right now. So, you have two teams who were playing for the championship last year, one is at home, the other one is getting ready to get sent to their room.

    Bottom line, the Spurs are already somewhere soaking up the sun. Yhis was the team that the Pistons were supposed to meet in the playoffs, They also have issues.

    Similar mindset in the off-season you say, the Spurs and Pistons with arguebly the best starting five, their game now is non-existent.

    It will interesting to see what type of changes the Spurs will be making to their lineup, this may be the barometer of what we will be doing in the off-season.

    I am not asking for wholesale changes with the pistons, but the lineup definitely needs tweaking, I will go as far as saying, we need to make some changes in the starting lineup.
  2. Mrcina

    Mrcina First Round Draft Pick

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    This is not a good comparison.
    Spurs (how much I don't like them), lost a 7th game overtime against a great team. And Finley contributed a lot. Pistons problem is not the quality of their bench, it's how the bench is used. Still, this is a minor problem now. The major problem are untouchable 5 (maybe untouchable 1?), their attitude and ruined chemistry inside this team.
  3. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Well said Mrcina. I would feel a little bit better if we lost in OT of game seven than go down like we are going now. I have no doubt that a part of the real Pistons will show up tomorrow night and win. I am just wondering if we have enough stamina, drive, and hustle to get the job done on Friday to get us back to Motown for game 7.

    Agree with Armygirl that at least 1, maybe two starters should be considered trade bait (one of the Wallaces) and definitely a retooling of the bench...some big man who is not affraid to go inside and can hit FT's and a slasher not affraid to attack the rim. The Spurs are already looking at their retweaking process, so they got a couple weeks headstart on us.
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Normally this is time JD would be using to assess the draft and market. With the recent drama, and his (probable) need to step in as an intermediary, the headstart "could" be significant.

    What concerns me is that regardless of the outcome this season, the public discord may affect our ability to attract talent.
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    Can you please do me a favor and at least aknowledge that you either agree or disagree that the pre-season game plan was to reserve PT for Darko/Delfino for their pending "breakout" seasons? Because thats what I recall as the reason why Dumars did not break the bank signing vets for the bench.
  6. legend71

    legend71 Second Round Draft Pick

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    I too am interested in what will happen in the off season. But who will be out there to be had? Who would Joe trade for? KG will not be dealt until he is a shell of himself (I think). We would have to gut the squad to get him anyway. I am soured on foreign players nowadays. Fool's gold in the NBA. The only one wiht any balls was Saruna Marcelonus. At least he could drive. I think our bench stinks. We need the guys that Dallas has coming off of their bench. They have some guys that make an impact when they come in. Evans, Delfino, etc. don't do that and are not trusted.

    What a waste of a season!
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    They could not break the bank. All they really had was the Mid-Level Exception which they used on Davis/Evans.

    If anything, signing Evans and Davis was a sign that the Pistons did not have ultimate confidence in their younger players.
  8. max

    max All-Star

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    I think the Pistons started the season with over 20mil commited to the bench. Thats not cheap. Our payroll is cheap because of Ben/Billups making half max. We had 2 guys Dyess/Darko making over 5mil/yr and Arroyo at 4mil. Thats how we started the season anyway.
  9. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    SA went down fighting. But yes, I agree that they foolishly went old and got burned. But we are old too--older than Wade, Le Bron etc. Not a coincidence that Tay has been our best player--he is the youngest starter. We stocked up for Shaq. But Flip does not play Davis or Cato who can guard Shaq some.

    But no, we didn't get someone for Wade. And, we don't have anyone on the team that can take someone off the dribble. In this day and age, that is a problem. We need a few young, speedy types and maybe a scorer to add to the mix.
  10. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    what we need

    is to break up the starting 5. it's what hurts us the most. nobody is allowed to crack it and thus the pistons aren't allowed to get better. we can only be as good as the 5 are. those times when mcdyess was really lighting it up and outplaying ben/sheed he should have been moved into the starting lineup. darko should have been playing this season. he is exactly that inside outside threat that can hit free throws (look at his orlando games for evidence). delfino is that slasher off the bench. the problem isn't our bench it's the use of our bench. tony delk can still put up the points yet he is barely seeing minutes. arroyo went to orlando and that olympic scorer came back. he could have been doing that for us and he if anything was a willing passer while in detroit. why upgrade the bench if you aren't going to use it.???

    we also need a star. someone that will go to the hole at crunch time and if he misses he gets the foul call. in todays nba the lack of a star is hurting us.
  11. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    So break up the team just cause we are in our customary position, where we are strongest; at least traditionally. That is; with our backs against the wall. I'm thinking we still got a flicker of life; even though we definitely have issues. I'm voting we keep the starting six plus Hunter, maybe Davis, and last year's rooks. Get the broom for everybody else.

    One of the weapons other teams have that we don't have is an "impact" player at the 2 or 3 spot off the bench. The Summer leagues will tell us whether Delfino is liable to breakout next year. If J-Max and Amir can handle the backup 3 spot, we should be allright there. We don't have a 1st choice in a weak draft so no loss there. We should be able to pickup a FA or maybe two.

    I'm not for trading Sheed for anybody not named Garnett. I'm disappointed in Sheed's overall play the last half of the season, but there remains nobody who can matchup against him when he's focused. Be interesting to see who those who advocate tradin Sheed suggest as a replacement.

    All is NOT lost and our future remains bright. At least on the player-front. The wasted Darko pick hurts; but the 08 Draft is supposed to be deeper.

    The issue is coaching. Flip just rolled the ball out this year and said "play!" If he don't hire a good defensive coach and get outta the way and let that coach do his thing, he'll be in trouble. Laimb...you ready?
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    Hatter - thanks I needed that.
  13. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I defintely would like to have Laimbeer in as head coach, wanted him back before Carlisle came aboard.

    As for breaking up the starters, I still say we need to move at least one person. We are losing continuity among the starters, the majority of the players have their own personal agenda which I thought would never happen to the Pistons squad.

    Come on Hatter you and I are usually on the same page bro, give a sister a little love on this one, you are from my old neighborhood, like Abe Vigoda said in Godfather I "For old times sake", I guess you'll have to say; "can't do it Sal".
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I slept on this last night. Tried to reconstruct the last several seasons bit by bit from memory.

    Sheed has to go.

    I love his feistiness, his swagger, his foolishness and his passion. I love his game. I think he is a decent person off the court, active without promotion in the community, etc.

    For his pricetag, he's a valuable asset.

    BUT

    Going into a 4th season with the same starting unit is a tricky situation. There is a fine line between consistent and stagnant. Some of Sheed's emotional volatility has impregnated the other starters, guys like Rip, Ben and Tay arguing calls. It's to the point where we have 1 big Sheed and 3 little Sheeds. Either way, the refs aren't going to carry the whiners.

    Sheed's still a game changer, when he wants to be. Unfortunately, that's not often enough. This team needs more energy from the starting PF position, on a regular basis. A guy who puts up 16 points 3 out of 4 nights. A guy who pulls down 8 boards, 3 out of 4 nights.

    If handled right, a trade could pay off well. I don't want to see it done, but it might have to be done. The biggest reason could be to get JMax on the court.
  15. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Sheed has all the tools but is wildly inconsistent. Out of the starting five we already have one natural non-scorer in Ben. It is imperative that the other 4 pick up the slack. The Pistons offense goes into extended slumps. This has been historical problem which Joe needs to address. At the very least I think 2 positions need to be addressed in the off-season, win or lose. Pistons need to add a PF with a scoring touch and a consistent low post game. Ben gets no consistent help down there. Secondly, CB needs a back up like Claxton who can score and penetrate. Can't go into another playoffs with the PG position lacking quality depth. Joe needs to spend the money.
  16. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Here's the thing with Sheed though......who do you get as his relacement??? Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, J Oneal, Gasol, Randolph, Brand.....Those are 7 guys who'd I'd entertain, 5 I'd pull the trigger instantly, but they are not going anywhere, anytime soon. I just don't see anybody out there that can replace Sheed who we could feasibly land here. An enigma if there ever was one. Do you ship Sheed, start Dyess and get some expiring deals or Shore up the guard and forward spots??? Be nice for some examples of what to do.......trade him to Denver for K-Mart??? I don't think so.
  17. max

    max All-Star

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    I agree on Potentially moving Sheed. I am not a big Sheed fan right now namely because this team always used to get along before he got here. Now with a more lax coach I can see this team going Portland on us. I am getting tired of all the 6 point nights and multiple 3-point attempts.

    Ideally I would like to see Sheed traded for a center so Ben can go back to his natural position at PF. Bens numbers have been down ever since he switched over in Feb 04 when we 1st got Sheed. Bens getting too old to guard Centers every night.

    Sheed for Okur? Is that possible? Kind of depends on what happends in the post-season. If the Pistons lose and the Locker room in rumored to be a reason then eveyones trade value is down.
  18. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    I gotta be the idiot here and say that I'd rather keep Sheed than Ben.

    * Partly that's because life before Sheed had a very limited ceiling. Any big guy from Kenyon Martin on up could shoot over Ben in the post, and we didn't have anybody who could nail a contested shot in close to the basket. Come playoff time, both of those weaknesses were fatal.

    * Partly it's because Ben could fetch a nice price in a sign and trade, from teams like Chicago who have spare picks and need a defensive presence inside.

    * Partly it's the likely high price we'd have to pay a guy who isn't what he used to be and can't be trusted to shoot 40% from the FT line.

    * And partly it's because we've come to that superstar tipping point Joe D. talks about -- the point where a team relies too much on the play and mood of one guy, and becomes vulnerable. The Pistons rely on Ben too much to cover for lapses in defense and intensity, and as long as he's around that will continue.

    Now the league is changing to a a smaller, quicker game that favors guards, and our defensive strength has to be redistributed. We need to get quicker on the ball, instead of hoping Ben will erase mistakes. Trying to stay the same will be a mistake.

    I'd think about trading Chauncey, but he's a bargain and it would be hard to get fair value. We'd better start thinking that one over soon, though, because teams are going to throw all kinds of money at him and I think he'll like that attention. A lot.
  19. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I absolutely, totally agree with everything you said 100%.

    I do love Sheed and think, when on his game, he makes his teammates better, communicates and helps extremely well on D, has an almost unstoppable inside/outside game for a big man, and brings energy and fun to the team. Unfortunately, like you said, he also too often disappears in critical times, puts his foot in his mouth, and fairly or not, has a reputation with the refs that ultimately hurts the team. He also isn't getting any younger.

    I think with Sheed, its very similar to LB. Its a case of diminishing returns. His act is starting to wear thin (and rub off on his teammates as you mentioned).

    Something has to change. This team needs a shake up. And just as with LB, I'm very thankful for everything he's brought to this team, but I think that his time has come.
  20. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    I agree with pretty much everything LanierFan wrote.

    I have to say that the first player I'd want to get rid of is Chauncey Billups, who I blame most of the attitude issues with the team on.

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