At Cleveland March 19th, 8:00 PM

Discussion in 'March 2008' started by Dlev59, Mar 18, 2008.

  1. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    We don't apparently have a coach. What coach would play Dyess and Theo together when Ilgauskas was not even on the floor. Ilgauskas is the only player on Cleveland who either is needed for. Why get that slow for nothing? (Talking about late 3rd quarter as we fell behind for good.)
    Flip continues to struggle to replace Afflalo in the rotation. This time, a combination of using Stuckey and later Prince. Gee, you got an excellent defender, and your chief mission in life is to replace him just because he is a rookie.


    Meanwhile, Rip does not get any rest hardly, and does horrible in the 2nd half. Matter of fact, the Pistons as a whole did horrible in the 2nd half. We do have a bench. What worked last night could have worked tonight. Limit the starters minutes in the first half, have them fresh in the 2nd half where games are generally won or lost.


    Rip did start out 7 for 11. Hayes hit his first 2 of 3. That was it. No way he made up for all the points he gave up this time.
    Amir played quite a bit in the first half, and looked quite helpful in providing help out D. He should have played a whole lot more in this one. (And Dyess had no business in the game at all. Theo or Amir should have started.)


    Maxiell was off the bench early in the first half. We did fine with him on the floor. Why he was kept out so much in the 2nd half is way beyond me. Except we don't have a coach.


    Ben Wallace plays pretty good D. So Sheed decided to take the rest of the night off and launch a bunch of threes. Not good.


    Stuckey hit a couple of jumpers. Not bad really. Should have played more, especially to finish out the 2nd quarter. Billups was doing nothing special to warrent taking away developement time from Stuckey.
    Dixon nor Afflalo played. Now they say Hunter will play the last 10 games. Too bad Joe and Flip are planning their 1st round exit.


    Cleveland honestly did not look that good. On defense, sure, guys like Delonte and Ben can play, but on offense? Weak. Except for Bron. Why can't we defend against Cleveland? Flip will not play young players who can hustle and defend shooters. Flip likes offense, defense no. That is why Hayes gets to play. Even the scatter shot Dixon gets to play some games, cause Flip just does not care about defense.


    Theo looked good for a moment or two. Blocked a shot on one end and hustled down the floor for the fast break dunk. One other block and that was it for the energy that a 34 year old can bring who is recovering from a bad back after 2 years not playing. Did I mention how active Amir looked on D?


  2. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    didn't see the game, may or may not watch it later. good news is we have 2 more times against cleveland to try to work some kinks out.
  3. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    I will throw this game away but yes, we do have to wonder about our match ups with Cavs and Celtics. We don't score against either well. This was a back to back which is an excuse this time. But do we have enough offense with the Flip sets against the good teams--a recurring question?

    Have to agree with Delfino and Lee: Dyss is not a good match up much of the time. Z can do what he wants with him. Sheed played poorly period. But he wasn't alone. Ratliff still looked uncertain out there but would like to see if he can body up Z.

    Also agree, no reason we can't get a defense to stop the Cavs. Maxiel looked the best out there this game but had limited time.
  4. max

    max All-Star

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    I am watching the 12am re-bradcast here. Normally I would not check the score but things are not looking good at the half. Looking at the box it does not look like anything positive can be taken out of this game and it does not look like anything was accomplished either. Just heavy mins for the starters during a humiliating loss.

    I am not going to worry about it too much since the odds are against us seeing them in the post-season. But yes 2 more games to get it right against this team for prides sake and the only silver lining is that the last 2 reg season matchups mean more than the 1st 2.

    -Perhaps there is something to these Wed games?
  5. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'll say. Next time around, I would use flat-out speed as a disruptive pattern against their tough defense. Case in point:
    • Use Stuckey, Dixon and AA with at least two of them playing at the same time. They should play 75% of the game with this combination.
    • Sheed stays in the paint with Ratliff. Both these big men can run. JMax substitutes for one them which means he should get at least 22-30 minutes of playing time. JMax must be able to move to be effective.
    • Rip continues to run. He can run the whole game. When not, then Hayes or Amir subs. Tay and Dyess can fit in here.
    • Tay plays one-quarter of entire game. Hayes and Amir spread his minutes between them . If Hayes is open, he will knock them down. This means those under the basket and in the paint, will get some rebounds on misses.
    My emphasis would be to limit (severely) Dyess and Tay....slow, slow, slow.

    Here is your breakout (with a -/+2 for each total) and Dyess/Tay are substitutions in the total point mix:
    • Stuckey (10)
    • Dixon (10)
    • AA (6)
    • Sheed (10)
    • Ratliff (6)
    • Amir (8)
    • Hayes (12)
    • Rip (18)
    • CB (10)
    • JMax (10)
    You score between 85-100 Pt's and you beat Cleveland.

    In short, because JD did not get his leader/slasher, one must substitute frenetic activity which will create distance on defensive pressure. This will only work if you run activity/athleticism for the whole game.

    I can take the Pistons losing in this style, but not the way I saw tonight.
  6. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Nice recap Lee. I agree with your points.

    I'd also add that, that attempt at playing zone in the 2nd half was absolutely ugly to watch.
  7. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Let me preface this post by saying i didn't watch the game. I tivo'ed it on the off chance we won, but was pretty sure of what would happen. It did. I watched the ESPN Box Score which was probably thouroughly more entertaining, and less frustrating that watching the actual game. I don't understand why we play the Cavs. Can't the networks just play Game 6 over an over again?. It's not like it would be much different.

    I mentioned in another thread that this was going to be a playoff style game and we were going to see how much not playing AA or Amir extensively will bite us in the you know what. Theo should have only played when Z played. Dice should've played alot less. But apparently our coach doesn't notice that he can BARELY move. Big minutes for the starters.

    CLE is slow as hell, and we didn't take advantage of it.

    Every negative thought i have about Flip Saunders, his ability to make adjustments, find the right mix of players, and general coaching ability is always reiterated in games like these.

    You could give MB d-league players that can play defense, and he would still use the same game plan, and we would still lose everytime.

    Normally, i would torture myself and watch the game, but i've come to some sort of strange acceptance about this season. I just want it to be over so we can get rid of the :ballchain

    At least this year we won't lose to the Cavs. That is the only positive i can come up with.
  8. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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  9. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Why doesn't Stuckey get a longer leash to attack off pick and rolls? That is what we needed all game long, and we only saw it once or twice. His ability to penetrate will decide a series against these 2 teams if they should face each other. If Flip lets him go to work instead of constant iso's for 20 footers, we've got a shot. If not, their defense just owns us. No one else can break down their D, and it turns into a brick-fest.

    I guess Flip will just cross his fingers and hope we don't face them.
  10. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    With 7 free throws attempted and less than 40% shooting, we obviously do not play agressive against these guys. I still see the possibility of facing these guys in the playoffs. Hopefully, somebody decides to drive the lane and draw some fouls when that series is played. Well, at least we never get injured.
  11. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    You think Cleveland will beat Boston in the playoffs?
  12. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    Excellent post, I just sent a similar mailbag question/statement to Langlois for the mailbag...

    Let's wait and see how it's dismissed...
  13. PistonFanInCavsTown

    PistonFanInCavsTown First Round Draft Pick

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    As I mentioned before, my wife and I made it to this game and we had a great time, even though the Pistons lost. We were six rows behind the Detroit bench, so that we were part of the normal in-game broadcast on ESPN. When we got home we FF'd through the broadcast and you could actually see us (her, mostly) at one point in the 3rd quarter when Devin Brown was called for an offensive foul for clearing out with his forearm. The camera switched to a Cavs fan reacting to the call and we are the fans in Pistons shirts behind him and to the left.

    Just some quick observations from the game, without looking to the box score:

    -IMO from the body language of both teams this was just a regular season game, nothing more.

    -The Pistons started out strong, and were right around 50 fg% with just a couple minutes to go in the 2nd quarter when things started to go badly. They tried to feed Sheed in the post several times but he just wasn't hitting them.

    -Ratliff was the first one in off the bench if I recall correctly, and he had an immediate impact in the first half. In the second half not so much.

    -I was really excited to see Amir come in the game, but he made no impact on the game from my viewpoint. In fairness he didn't play much.

    -Z and Dice seem very similar in that they both want to shoot that perimeter J. Only difference last night was that Z was dead-accurate with it. However, Dice played some nice D (especially a stretch early in the 3rd) and pulled down several boards.

    -It seems like the Pistons should just shut the Cavs down when they put Sideshow Bob and Big Ben on the floor together, but Sideshow killed us on the offensive glass and cheap put-backs. Gotta box that guy out...

    -The Cavs fans have embraced Big Ben. He got the second-loudest cheer during the introductions and loud cheers whenever he checked in. I even saw a Cavs fan with a "Fear the Fro" Cavs shirt - did they acquire the rights to that slogan along with Ben's contract?

    -I liked when they tried to make LBJ play D on Tay, and Tay was able to back him into the paint quite easily, but they didn't try it much.

    -Way too many 3 attempts, especially in the second half. In contrast, it didn't seem like the Cavs attempted more than 6 3s the whole game.

    -To me it appeared that Flip was still experimenting with different groups out there. I remember at one point near mid-4th quarter I counted 3 bench guys on the floor, and Billups didn't come back in until 5 minutes were left. At around the 7 minute mark there was a stoppage in play and Billups started to get up from his seat and looked to Flip, but never got the signal and sat back down.

    -I had 3 different Cavs fans ask me who was the guy in the suit with the ponytail. :) One of them was an older lady and she said "he looks like Fabio!"

    -Sheed is fun to watch both in- and out-of-game. Near the start of the 2nd half he took of his warm-up shirt out on the court and tossed it up in the air towards the Piston bench. It hung in the air for a second and then fell down on Tay's head. As Tay pulled it away Sheed made a pouty-baby type face at him and laughed. :pound:
  14. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    cleveland has a good chance of beating boston. someone else said they weren't afraid of any teams in the west, but they were of boston/cleveland and i agree. it's because their defense is so much better. i also agree that we need to try to run more against cleveland and use our quicker guys to put pressure on them.

    flip said dyess was open and he wasn't getting the ball to take shots, but that's because his shot has been off for months and i don't think the guys trust him anymore to make them.

    can someone tell me how ratliff played? i'm not in favor of giving him max's minutes, but i might be in favor of him getting dice's minutes against cleveland. i saw bits and pieces on tv but it looks like we were getting outrebounded badly, or not even going for boards, which is where amir could really help.
  15. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    Amir did extraordinarily well on switches/help with LBJ. I'd love to see he and Dyess get cracks @ LeBron. His patented stiff arm move plus freakish athleticism would be less effective against those guys.

    Dyess did very well last year on switches vs LBJ and the game 5 LBJ blow up was sans Dyess.


    Seeing Arvis completely helpless vs Wally was very sobering. I'm a big gooney slow white dude and I'd take my chances vs Wally. Any type of screen seems to absolutely destroy Arvis' ability to tag his man.
  16. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    The Rattler would get a d+ in my books, he was pathetic in tryting to block out Sideshow Bob, he missed an effing dunk, he didn't block any shots that I noticed, he looked pretty lost @ times.

    He's big and strong and can certainly be more of a game changer than DD but last night was not a strong showing...

    Dyess has regressed BIG TIME. Think about all he was doing in 05' and contrast that with now.

  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Nice little piece. I like how he gives several specific examples, which is really rare in articles like this.

    After reading that, I'm sort of reconsidering how much effort we put into this game. CB, Rip, Dyess, Hayes, Maxiell, and Johnson getting 0 free throws? Prince, Sheed, and Ratliff each had 1 trip to the line. Stuckey got an and-one. That is a total lack of effort. Sheed shot 8 threes and the rest of the team shot 9. Just think if each Pistons took 8 threes! That would be 80 3-point attempts for a possible 240 points.

    I bet that Flip is thinking the following... 'you're probably not going to play the Cavs in the playoffs anyway. You try to prepare your team for the post season, but you don't want to show your hand, sort of like when you're doing magic tricks. You're in a position where your team is not making shots and your opponent is scoring more, which is the opposite of what you want to see have happen.'
  18. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If I have ever suggested that the NBA playoff seeding logic, which seems likely to put Cleveland out of our path until the conference finals, is flawed in any way, I hereby take it back.

    Good job commish!
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    PistonFanInCavsTown, thank you very much for the live recap! It's excellent! :D

    Sad, but true.
  20. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    haha that's great. we should make a flip saunders sentence generator, where it converts all 1st person pronouns to 2nd and 3rd person, or mixes all 3.

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