At Washington January 30th, 7:00PM

Discussion in 'January 2007' started by Dlev59, Jan 28, 2007.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yeah, I did notice that. There was a stretch where I was complaining out loud to my wife (who couldn't have not cared lesser).
     
  2. lapeapod

    lapeapod First Round Draft Pick

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    The Pistons are their own worst enemy. They let the Wizards just crush them in the first quarter and you're the road team so once the hole is dug no way out of it. They were playing at a disadvantage with Jamison out so it's not as if we were playing them at full strength. It all comes down to Detroit playing better D. They need to play that trapping tough man to man when they're not in the hole and see how that works. Didn't help 3 techs on the Pistons tonight including one on Flipper. Is Sheed a bad influence on Rip that he's picking them up at a pretty good pace? Why wasn't Maxiell given more minutes, he's active and energetic and brings that brute force we need. So Flip Murray finally got a few minutes off the bench to do what exactly? I'm almost of the mindset to shake-up the starting line-up and have Rip come off the bench to give the 2nd unit some scoring punch.
     
  3. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    TaShaw doubting the Kandernator?... best health record over the last 10 years my man.... it's that flexomaticstimulator thing.
    They showed an Arnie piece today before the game... that should be a series.... the players swear by him... G Hill tried recruiting him to Orlando... he'd be in the HOF by now :^)
     
  4. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    What happened to that georgetown trap?... or is that only when we're down 10 with 2 minutes left?
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    micro cap

    Slow start killed us. We came out trying to play at the Wizards tempo, total failure.

    This team is lacking composure. They talk a big game about being good, but don't execute like the hunted. Tonight the Wiz came out like the hunters.

    We had no answer for Arenas, love him or hate him, he's an up and comer and our guys looked slow, disinterested and totally unfocused at times.

    Not really a whole lot else to say. Sheed and Dice played well. Tay came on a little. Delfino and Hunter were a joke off the bench, Rip wasn't sharp and Billups was very disappointing.

    Webber was good when he was given the ball. But they got away from Webber and he became a non-factor.

    The loss doesn't concern me, the level of intensity, discipline and focus does. Those were all really poor.

    Sorry. I tried to stay upbeat throughout the game but the result bothers me quite a bit.
     
  6. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I think our team has forgotten that playing defense is not lackadaisically getting your hand up in the players face when you can. It's contesting plus trying to deny the ball, forcing them in tough shots and out of their sweet spots, and not let them get in a rythm in the 1st place.

    WAS played better defense than us in this game.

    There's no help. No rotating, and absolutely ZERO presence in the paint besides Sheed when he's there or feels like it.

    Does this team practice defense? Even with a mediocre defensive effort this game was winnable.

    We are an offensive team w/ not even that good of an offense to begin with!
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok, I just poured more liquid refreshment and the pain is starting to fade.

    Offense...

    Our offense bogs down with Billups. I know it sounds like heresy and he is one of the best blah-blah bla, but reality is that he really only executes a couple plays in this offense well. He doesn't take his man off the dribble, and tonight, he had a lot of turnovers.

    The offensive attack is much slower with Webber in the low post, but he is able to find Rip off screen curls 100% open. I really thought this kind of disciplined attack could have slowed the Wiz and allowed the Pistons back in.

    But that was the least of our problems.

    Defence

    The Wizards were hot. Make no mistake about that. But they also were open many times tonight and very aggressive going to the hoop.

    Several times the Pistons help D failed to materialize, and what I can only guess is a hybrid zone was also turned completely inside out.

    Players were late, didn't switch, there was zero communication on D. Several times the Pistons were double teaming a 4th option away from the play as 1 or more shooters were coming open.

    The defense did tighten up late in the game, the Pistons subbed in Delfino and Hunter throughout the second half but to no avail. Both were offensive liabilities, and Hunter was regularly beaten by Gilbert Arenas.

    As I wrote before, there is not a lot to be happy about. We didn't grab the tie-breaker with the Wizards, so it will now come down to conference play. We aren't showing a lot of passion or hustle and are beginning to look very slow footed.
     
  8. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    104-99 loss ugh.

    Like in all losses, the Pistons played at least one bad qtr and put up a valiant effort in the 4th but came up short again. This time it was the first qtr where the passive defense could not stop the hot shooting Wizards as they went up 30-18 at the end of the qtr and eventually extended the lead by as many as 19 in the second before the Pistons closed it down to 13 at the half.

    The pace of the game quickly took Webber out of the game and he was a non factor only gettin 6 pts, 6 brds and 3 assists. Tay must have read the forum poll about him stealing money as he got off fast with 14 points in the first half but only 1 in the third and 4 in the 4th. He even missed an automatic layup to open the 4th by throwin up a weak runner instead of jamming it.

    Rip grabbed a tech in the first half and Flip had to pull him, leaving us with Hunter and Flip jr to kill the offense and that in part lead to that 19 point lead. Hunter did managed to score 7 points in the game and found Dice open a couple of times. Dice missed two straight wide open bunnys, instead of just dunking the ball and then a couple of plays later missed an opportunity for another layup by mishandling a pass where no defensive player had even crossed the half court line to defend him. still he was the only offensive threat off the bench with 11 pts and 6 boards.

    Carlos got a late hoop in the closing seconds, but I noticed that he hasn't been shooting that much lately. Sheed was very successful posting up hitting five shots. He hit one three and then missed his next three- 3 ball attempts in the second half.

    Billups had a couple of baskets in the first half, but most of his production was in the first half was in the assist mode. Most of his points (24) came in the 4th qtr but they came a tad too late.

    The Wizards announcers indicated that the Pistons lead the league with 5 one possession losses. The NBA standings state that we are actually 2-7 in games decided 3 pts or less. That means that our coaches have not been able to motivate or setup crunch time wins for us.

    Keys to this loss were the Wiz hot shooting in the first qtr>70% and our 16 turnovers. Of course Arenas 36 points didn't help.

    These last two losses to the Wizards should at least make management realize that either we don't have enough to get it done or our coach isn't cuttin' it:yellowprison:
     
  9. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Hmm, other than firing the coach, nothing will fix this. No bench. Hunter gets a couple of shots down, but other than that our bench unit can't score. So Billups plays the entire 2nd half with no rest. Hear me, hear me, no, Hunter is no point guard, and Flip Saunders had better soon figure it out.

    What else? Here we are getting out hustled big time to start the game, and Flip just lets it go on continually. No, Flip, listen, the starters do not have to stay in if they don't fit what is going on. Get some more speed out there. Great adjustment in the 4th when the game was already close to lost, but how about the first quarter. Why fall behind in the first place?

    Kudos to Deshawn Stevenson, I think he ended up only missing one shot for the game. Considering Jamison went early with an injury, that really hurt us.

    It certainly was not lack of hustle on Sheed's part that lost this game. He hustled like crazy, but just maybe he did not, or maybe the team did not, try a bit harder to get the ball into the post. Besides, with Washington trying to run an up tempo game, early shots like many we took feed right into their plans. Just a very poorly coached game in that respect.

    We did use Dale Davis in this game, and Maxiell for several minutes. Hunter way too much. Flip Murray had a good long stint. Delfino ended up playing plenty. Dyess was first off the bench. Eleven guys in the rotation tonight, and yet, we had no bench play, and Billups played way too much.

    Billups ended up scoring a lot, but a lot of it was late in the game in a deperate attempt to claw back in. Just maybe if Washington had faltered on a shot or two we could have pulled this one off. But Washington made the shots. It was not just Arenas. They all were hitting. Some contested shots, some not so contested.

    Tay started out being our only offense, then scored another bunch to end up with 14 at the half. Dyess nailed some shots, midrangers, soon after entering the game. But Dale Davis, or Jason Maxiell, should have come in long before that.

    Our starters fell behind about 14 points, the subs left with us down 19. We just kept things even pretty much from there, never getting back to closer than 10 points until very late in the 3rd quarter.

    We finished the game with the starters except Delfino was playing instead of Webber. For the game, Delfino had some rebounds, played his usual solid D, and got one dunk-kind of late in the game to really help us out though. (Although if we did catch them-if they had missed a couple more shots-darn it but they didn't). He also got blocked going inside and missed an outside shot badly.

    Flip Murray was hustling some on D while out there, and got a good assist. He also turned it over and missed a shot or two.

    Webber hit a jumper, and made two buckets posting up, both hooks if I recall. Maybe got a few rebounds here and there. One thing he was not, ever, is back on transition D in that first quarter.

    Rip scored well enough, his shot staying pretty amazingly consistent. Maxiell I can't recall shooting at all, nor Davis.

    We did stay man to man a lot more in this game, but quite predictably, Arenas scored more, and a lot more efficiently due to that. Billups is way too gimped up to stop Gilbert at all, and Hunter is too old, and too short to bother Arenas any. (Actually, one of the best defensive efforts vs. Arenas for us in the last two years was by Mo Evans.) You would think that maybe Rip could slow the guy down, or Tay. Maybe we will meet in the playoffs and have to find out.

    One thing that hurt us is those two times Haywood scored over Dale Davis in the post. Good moves. Davis is a pretty good help out defender, but he not a great individual defender vs. a lot of bigger centers. Dale is just a power forward sized guy after all. GO PISTONS!!!!!
     
  10. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Something looks broken. Are we just old and slow? Is it disinterest? Is it the coach?

    We cannot win with any regularity when teams get over 90 points in the regular season. We have lost our defensive purpose with this hybrid zone. We give up open looks galore, early and late.

    We were promised offense after Larry but we do not have an offense that resembles anything in the west. Even weak teams out-execute us.

    Washington is not that good a team and they did not have Jamison. They let us hang around and we still couldn't make a run.

    Hunter is not the defensive answer. We need a perimeter lock down kind of guy. I have given up on getting much from the offensive system but we need to get some defense back. Are you listening, Joe?
     
  11. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    What a night of frustration and disgust. Well I was there to witness this game. First off, I arrived just in time to see Jamison wincing in pain on the floor (midway through 1st quarter) and the Pistons down by about 10 at the time.

    The Wizards were firing on all cylinders, Stevenson, Arenas, Caron Butler seemed as though they couldn`t miss. Calvin Booth?? WTF, The Pistons made him look like Kareem Abdul Jabbar on a couple of possesions....

    As noted by others some of the calls were simply outrageous. That`s when the folks around me knew I was a Piston fan, as my disgust and emotion became vocal! They were all over me then.

    As the lead balloned to about 19 points, the Wiz fans around me were relentless with their taunts, and verbal assaults about Sheed and Webber. What was really funny, most of what they said was true!!

    In the second half the Pistons made it a game for a little while, however, some turns by CB, a couple of ill advised 3`s by Sheed and some reaching fouls by Dyess, and all of a sudden down by 10 again.

    After the block by Tay on a Caron Butler J, and the ally-oop slam by Tay, I rose to my feet and turned to the Wiz fans with my finger over my mouth, dam that was cool, they actually were quiet too, as the Pistons were on a run.

    I left to beat the traffic with about 1:53 remaining in the game, with a dozen or so folk booing me when I left, it was all good though.

    As Roscoe said, the loss doesn`t bother me, the way they loss bothers me. The mistakes, lack of focus, sense of urgency is quite troubling.

    Most of us have been hard on Flip, and for good reason some time, but these are grown freakin` men who get piad a lot of money, and they should share in the blame with the Flipper.

    I was listening too the Wiz post game show driving home from the game and about 3 callers who attended the game said how they thought the Pistons players looked and played disinterested and lethargic.

    This team has talent but everyone from Joe D to the last player on the bench needs to take a long look in the mirror or this season is going to get very, very ugly.
     
  12. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    Either that or we get a real coach.
     
  13. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Dang D59 why weren't you showing your colors?
    ========
    We expect more of these guys. But I doubt we'll back away from our dreams. Finals or Bust !
     
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  15. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    A little bulletin board material courtesy of Wizz coach Jordan:

    "That team is a very good team. Are we done with them?" Jordan asked.
    Yes, coach, the Wizards and Pistons won't meet again in the regular season.
    "So," Jordan said, "we kicked their butts."
     
  16. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    This speaks volumes. Ultimately this is where the team's identity has changed the most. Prior to Flip (Carlisle/Brown eras), the Pistons never loss during crunch time. Giving up winnable games is beginning to sink into the team culture....and it shows. Great coaches win the close ones and earn their money in the playoffs. We don't have a great coach.
     
  17. Maverick

    Maverick First Round Draft Pick

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    its kindve hard to play defense on Arenas if hes shoving you out of the way with his off arm when u go to guard him.. if any of u tivoed the game check the very end of the first half when hunter is on him.. its pretty bad. he did it like 4 times in a row
     
  18. Maverick

    Maverick First Round Draft Pick

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    or incase u missed it check out espns highlights.. towards the end there talking about Areanas shooting 100 3's before each game and he again clears out hunter with his off arm before shooting a 3
     
  19. max

    max All-Star

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    I think we actually did have a losing record in 3 pts or less in 2004 under Brown. It was one of those strange stats.
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Superstars get away with stuff. Cwebb has been clearing out his man whenever he makes a drive to the basket as well.

    This stuff goes uncalled if you are a "somebody". Right now, Arenas is one of the 3 most visible players in the game.

    I think folks overlook how well we have to play with our collection of almost-stars in order to overcome superstar calls.

    I hope we get the Wiz in the playoffs. I would like another chance to beat these guys.
     

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