At what cost?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by jammertime, May 19, 2006.

  1. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Great win tonight, but I was just looking at the box score and noticed some HUGE minutes by the starters:

    Tay - 48 minutes
    Sheed - 46
    Ben - 41
    CB - 40
    Rip - 35 minutes (but also 5 fouls, which limited him from more)

    So, ASSUMING the Pistons do win game 7 and take the series, at what cost will this extended series come to our chances at a Ship?

    Last year the 3 biggest excuses for us not winning it all were: fatigue, home court advantage, and being outcoached.

    Your thoughts?
  2. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    One game at a time, the Pistons live to fight another day. Let's not over analyze the WIN. Just yesterday we were all down. Hopefully we take Game 7 and then Flip can do a better job using the bench.
  3. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Agreed. Game 7 is anything but a lock, I'm not trying to look past it, or the Cavs. Just wanted to throw that out there.
  4. max

    max All-Star

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    I don't really care at this point. Just get game 7 and worry about Miami later.

    Davis and Kato will be more than fresh. Thats what Davis was signed for.
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I called it on DetroitBadBoys.com. If Flip says he will play more guys, you can be damn sure he will play less.

    I've mastered his jedi-jitsu now. It's basic reverse psychology.
  6. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Just what do you mean "hopefully".

    My son described the best scenerio as win game 7 in a blowout. Rest the starters in the 4th qtr. It helps that the Heat come here. We don't need much coaching up for them.
  7. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Well, you gotta do what you gotta do I guess. They needed a win tonight, or they would have had plenty of time to rest in the offseason. Anyone have an idea of the ECF schedule? Is there a 2 or 3 day break in there somewhere like this series?

    I do worry about Tayshaun though. back-to-back 48 minute games? That's rough. I think Flip is going to have to go out on a limb against the Heat and give Delfino a try if his boyfried (Mo) still has that hand issue. I understand not putting los in against Lebron, but he has definately had some success against Wade. Might as well give it a try. If it works it works. If not, then I guess Tay will have to suck it up.
  8. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    The games are played on the court and 3,4 and 5 put a good scare into most fans. No more predictions until I see the Pistons firing on all cylinders. Like LB says, they played like strangers in thoses losses.
  9. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    The way the league schedules playoff series these days, I think "being rested" is something of a media creation. The long gaps between games mean these guys get more rest than during the regular season, especially since the only travel is between Detroit and Cleveland.

    Injury and emotional letdown after the high of a tough playoff win might be greater factors. Still, I'd rather have the Pistons "blooded" by a tough series than waltzing into Miami thinking it's going to be easy.
  10. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Hopefully we are witnessing the awakening of the real Detroit Pistons. I don't know who these guys were but last night was a good start to getting back to the gritty team. Its like hulking out.
  11. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    well rip didn't play many minutes and if we get to miami, he's going to see a lot of minutes on wade which means tay will get to rest (not like you need mo to guard antoine walker, that guy guards himself with his errant 3-pointers :D)
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Walker shot 44% treys last round. He's a greater challenge than Marshall in that he can put the ball on the floor if you run out, either to pass or finish.

    No more underestimating!
  13. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    After Game 7, they'll be worrying about Miami sooner than later. ECF starts on Tuesday. Good thing the series starts at home. You really think Davis will be able to do what Elden did? I dunno. Fortunately, Shaq has regressed.
  14. jzchen

    jzchen Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    After 82 games in the regular season and 11 games into playoffs, you think Flip will have the starters play less than 38 min in a game 7 even if we have a 20 pt lead going into the 4th? No frickin' way. Flip's pattern is he'll only sub starters with at least 20 pt lead and 2 minutes left in the game. That's what Flip does!!!
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Davis is more likely to get those offensive fouls on Shaq than Easy. Campbell would wear out Shaq and resist him, but now the way the refs are calling his play, it's advantageous to get him out of the game altogether. And I have no doubt that Dice, Ben , Davis, Cato and Sheed can contain Zo. Heck, I would absolutely love to see JMAX play Zo. Next year. Maybe.
  16. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    play the bench and lose games

    delk desrves more time, i'd say. kato and Davis? are you guys serious? Delfino and Evans are a joke, ok. Hunter can play and brings something to the table. Dice deserves plenty of minutes. Honestly, our bench ain't that good boys and ladies.

    sad but true.

    it's too bad the starters haven't been able to put games away with effeciency this round, but the bench isn't the answer.

    and for anyone about to say the dreaded words darko and arroyo... they would have brought nothing either.

    We have 7.5 playoff worthy players. 6 of those are EXCELLENT players and should be able to take us to the prize.

    Joe D needs to get us some better players. If LB AND Flip won't play em, then they ain't any good. Maxiel and Johnson might give us something next year, but for real, the guys making all the money need to play all the minutes or we will lose.

    we might lose anyhow. that's facts.
  17. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: play the bench and lose games

    Davis looked more than OK when the Pistons faced Indy in the playoffs.
  18. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    Re: play the bench and lose games

    Delk is a low-percentage chucker who doesn't play much defense and was playing way above his career averages in his brief time in Detroit. That said, sure, he deserves more minutes - backing up either Chauncey or Tayshaun.
    Kelvin Cato is garbage. But Dale Davis is still a starter-quality player, who is probably better than the Ben Wallace we've seen for 2/3 of this playoff run to date. He intimidates, he makes the correct rotations, he gives hard fouls, he sets hard picks, he boxes out, and he rebounds at both ends of the floor. Like Delfino, he simply hasn't been given a chance to contribute by Flop.
    Occasionally. His defensive impact is erratic at best, and his offense is - well, unlike Billups, at least he's not intimidated by Eric Snow. But I think he's gone through his quota of good shooting games for this year.
    More in the next round than this one, because, for some bizarre reason, he's done an excellent job over the past few years guarding Shaquille O'Neal one-on-one, and the Heat has nobody who can guard him. His atrocious help defense and the referee conspiracy to try to foul him out of every game have made him a liability in this series.
    Repeating it doesn't make it true. Extrapolating from the way they've been used by Flop doesn't seem especially convincing to me.
    Then what is? More of the starters, who you say are the problem? The coaching staff won't make productive adjustments.
    Arroyo was a factor in several Pistons wins in the playoffs last year, and had been killing Payton and Miami in every game this year. The lack of a point guard on the bench is one of the more notable flaws of the second unit. He wasn't great - definitely not as great as he thought he was - but he got the job done occasionally.
    So, if the Pistons don't win this season, it's Joe Dumars's fault? He's the one who should come under scrutiny?
    Larry Brown played Carlos Arroyo, Lindsey Hunter, Carlos Delfino, and Elden Campbell consistently last season when healthy. Antonio McDyess was far more effective under Larry Brown. And I take the opposite view - if Flop won't play 'em, they're probably pretty good. LB had his biases, and I think he made some serious mistakes, but in the regular season at least he gave the majority of the players a chance to succeed.
    Because the Cleveland Cavaliers were the better team? Because "the starters haven't been able to put games away"? Because Joe Dumars did such a bad job assembling the team?

    :focus:, the Pistons should do whatever they have to, whatever Flop feels comfortable with, to win this series, and at that point Flop's coaching methods should be carefully examined and second-guessed.
  19. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Re: play the bench and lose games


    Evans brings it every third game he plays, it seems. Delfino? How does anyone know what he could bring to the table? The guy never plays. I think not playing Delfino has been Flip's biggest flop. I don't understand it. Love to see the media ask a pointed question once in a while instead of the usual "what were you thinking, LeBron, when you dribbled the ball upcourt?" I feel like Flip has given up on some of our bench dwellers.
  20. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    my assesment of our bench in no way excuses Flip's coaching.



    For the record, I don't think we will lose tomorrow. It's possible, but very unlikely.

    I don't love what Flip has done relative to minutes and rotation. But I understand it.

    If we don't win the title there will be plenty of blame to go around, but I doubt I am pointing fingers at Joe D. I am pretty excited with what he has done around here. Let's hope the boys dig deep and stay the course. But, if we lose-- who else to look to except Joe D? He will get us better players. Watch. I doubt he stands put with what he have even if we win. Delfino and Evans are gone either way, I bet. Flip is finished if we don't get to the Finals.

    I sense a decidely anti-Flip vibe in your post. I'm not a big fan of Flip's either, but I am not willing to believe in players who have done very little when they did get minutes. The guys who brought us to the dance are going to win or lose. I am just being real.

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