Bad Contract

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by kpaav, Feb 16, 2010.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    What do you do with Stuckey? Is he worth more than Gordon? He's certainly done a lot less in his time in the league.

    He may not have a lot of options if the CBA collapses and the cap (hard or soft) falls further. I don't see a RS bidding war in any circumstance.
  2. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Really. This kid can play major minutes on any team in the league. I think you're vastly underrating him. And he's just in his 3rd season, missed a lot of time at the start of his rookie year, and played on dysfunctional and injured teams the rest of the time, and for his 3rd coach.

    I think he's got a big chance to be an all-star quality player.
  3. Kidstealth

    Kidstealth First Round Draft Pick

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    Huh? I "guess" he is a better scorer, but Gordon is pretty good. I watched the Chicago series and was impressed by Gordon putting the team on his back. So Martin is taller, but he isn't exactly a defensive stopper, and as a rebounder, gets an astounding .8 per game more for his career, and 2.2 this year. Assists, steals, and blocks are pretty much identical, and Gordon turns the ball over more often in his career, but this year they are averaging the same. They are very comparable shooters, one slightly better in FG, one better at the 3.

    Then of course you bring up Martin's biggest issue, and discount as if it is nothing. Injuries.

    Let's throw out their first year, they were both bench players, but Gordon did log 24 minutes and played in every game, Martin only 45.

    In 2005-2006

    Gordon -80
    Martin -72

    2006-2007

    Gordon -82
    Martin - 80

    (Martin sign 5 year $55-million deal, oh and Gordon matched him nearly identically in all categories that year.)

    2007-2008

    Gordon - 72
    Martin - 61

    2008-2009

    Gordon - 82
    Martin - 51

    2009-2010

    Gordon - 33
    Martin - 21


    Now looking at that, one guy looks like he has injury problems, the other this looks just like a one year thing. Seriously, look at them side by side and tell me that one is a "horrid" contract compared to the other when you stick them side by side. If anything Gordon proved more BEFORE he got his big deal.

    Kevin Martin NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com

    Ben Gordon NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com
  4. max

    max All-Star

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    Ray Allen is one of my favorites but 19mil/yr? With no real playoff experience prior to age 32.
    Good question, what to do with a PG who is not good at making plays and a SG who cannot shot well. He is quick. Been so hyped here that I don't know if he could step down to a lesser role. Be a nice 3rd guard for some team.
  5. BB4L11

    BB4L11 First Round Draft Pick

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    Ray Allen is a straight up shooter, he has proven year in year out that he can score and in bunches. His career stats say it all. He is well worth the money, maybe getting old now but he has earnt his big contracts at this stage of his career.
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm not so sure about that. I'm not sure he is a top 15 PG in the NBA.

    I'm not sure that's possible. He's a decent player for sure, but when you evaluate him in the context that he has been the number 1 option for two seasons, and the primary ball handler, which of course is going to make him stand out compared to everyone around him, particularly on bad and dysfunctional teams, then...

    I'm not picking on him, I just don't see the hype.

    Stuckey's next deal will be for $$$. You don't want to sink franchise player money into a guy unless you are absolutely sure he is THE franchise player.

    I know there are people who are sure he is going to be something great. I don't see it yet. It is possible, but I'm not sure it is obvious at this point.
  7. webz

    webz All-Star Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Also, you're forgetting the most interesting and unusual aspect of Martin's game. He gets to the FT line. A lot.
    He just has a knack for drawing fouls. Averaged 10.3 attempts per game last season which was second only to Dwight Howard. And when he gets there he is mostly automatic (career 85%).

    Gordon averaged 4.7 attempts last season (career 86%).
  8. Nemo

    Nemo Hall of Fame Forum Donor

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    Don't see anybody paying Stuckey more than 5 mil/year on a contract at this time.
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I could see $8 mill, or $10 mill by someone reaching, but if Detroit pays him like that, it means we will definitely have to move Rip or Tay to pull it off, and I'm not sure that is a net win in the talent dept.
  10. jayborne

    jayborne Bench Warmer

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    It's simple. When Kevin Martin is healthy, he lives up to his contract on just about any team. Ben Gordon needs the right situation to live up to his. That's the difference. BG is the perfect player to get overpaid for a hot series, and it's exactly what happened.

    It means nothing now, we have no one the calibur of Kevin Martin currently on our team.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Tonight is a good example. The franchise is maybe our 3rd best player on the night, when he has the ball in his hands for almost half of the game.

    If you can't be the clear alpha on a bad team, I don't know how you can be the alpha on a good one.

    Maybe one day, but that day is not today.
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    What makes Stuckey's next contract frightening is that he has become the # 2 pick in the '04 draft. To let him walk or whatever puts a harsh light on Dumards.
  13. Kidstealth

    Kidstealth First Round Draft Pick

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    Right...so you base this one what? When Martin is healthy he is worth you say, but Gordon isn't worth it because in the only other situation outside of Chicago, he has had to fight through injuries and for PT.

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

    He got overpaid for a "hot" series, instead of those years prior. RIIIIIGHT.

    And again, I don't see him blowing Gordon out of the water anywhere on the court.

    But hey, keep being so convincing.
  14. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Overpaying Stuckey when his contract is up would be the one move that could really doom this franchise. He's still potential and is getting paid potential-money. I fear that his franchise-salary will materialize before his franchise-play.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I don't agree with jayborne on everything, but I agree with him on Martin. Martin is a more fragile and younger version of Rip. If he can stay healthy, he's got huge potential.

    Ben Gordon has never been as good as Rip. And I like Bengo a lot.
  16. jayborne

    jayborne Bench Warmer

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    The year prior where he was a free agent and no one made a serious bid to take him away from a Bulls team that was on the fence about keeping him? Yes he was restricted, but no one was offering the type of money he got now. In fact after he turned down that big extension 2 years ago, he was mad they weren't offering him that type of money again. You think Houston is making that deal to make Ben Gordon their #2 player next to Yao next year?

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