Bad GM vs Good GM - Raps vs Stones

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TheeTFD, Nov 6, 2005.

  1. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    This came to me as I read the Raptors game thread. VC v GHill. Hill was our prize piece before injuries stole his game. Everyone was saying he couldn't carry us in the playoffs. So JD trades him post prime for unknowns BBen and Cheeser. Wonderful rebuilding process. VC was a monster but couldn't get his team over the hump either and injuries rocked his world. What could Toronto have gotten for him 4 or 5 years ago? Instead of the couple of picks they got from NJ. What's very evident is Raps don't know how to manage people. VC had to quit on his team before the GM saw the light. VC may still be a primmadonna but it wasn't all his fault.
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    VC is a jerk. Rob Babcock cannot draft to save his life, but they got picks, and 3 serviceable veterans in return. Mourning was bought out and amnestied (although if they knew about the amnesty provision, they probably would have kept him on the books all year).

    Eric Williams is a locker room leader and can still fill a stat sheet. Aaron Williams is another big body on a team lacking size.

    When your star wants out, and tanks his play, the choices are limited. As RB said, "there were no better offers" and keeping VC would have destroyed the franchise.

    It's not fair to compare the situation to Detroit. Hill gave Joe the opportunity with a S&T to make gold from lead.
  3. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I said 4 or 5 years ago. Before it came to this. Task, name a player in a sit. like VCs were it is clear the team can go no further and the star must go. How about Webber and Sac. pretty good timing I'd say. At least Webber didn't have to resort to "quiting" to get the GM to see the light.
  4. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Absolutely. Joey D didn't want to trade Hill. But hey, you gotta love karma. Joe stayed proffesional and we got the better of the exchange.
  5. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    What do you mean JD didn't want to trade Hill? Yes he did.
    How about P. Peirce [Celtics] his window of opp. is closing and he lost his running buddy again [A. Walker]
  6. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Umm...no he didn't. Dumars really wanted Grant to be a Piston. In fact, some of Joe's initial moves were an attempt to build around Grant as the franchise player. Unfortunately, (well fortunately now) Hill chose Orlando instead. The sign and trade deal was a gift from Grant so that the Pistons organization was not left with nothing. Remember Grant was an unrestricted free agent. Dumars didn't want to trade Hill but he also didn't want to be left with nothing so his hands were tied. Hill got a max contract out of the deal, something Orlando couldn't have provided...but Hill made it clear that it really wasn't about money it was about opportunity. The initial buzz was that Orlando was trying to figure out a way to get McGrady, Hill and Duncan together but it never matrerialized.
  7. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Thanks for the update MoPri, But my take on it was JD was just abusing Orlando. Hill was no longer effective his ankles were jelly, as Orlando found out. That was a nice dream they invisioned but they got raped. And we snuck away with BBEN! Bad GM vs Good GM
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think you are missing what MoP was writing.

    Joe wanted to keep Hill. If he had kept him, no Ben, and Hill would have been laid up for years sucking down salary.

    That's not a case of being good. That's being lucky.
  9. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    OK, but wasn't everyone in the city tired of Hill? He was a class act but his play was ineffective.
    Could JD have been so sneaky that he pulled the wool over everybodies eyes? Did he or did he not PIMP G. Hill.
  10. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I don't think Hill's play was ineffective at all and I never got tired of him.

    I think with Hill it was a case of the KG syndrome. A lone superstar and a supporting cast. All the pressure was on Hill and when he was off his game (and a lot of games when he was dead on) we lost. Stats are nice, but in a losing cause don't mean much (unless you're a fantasy GM, in which case, pad those stats!).

    Just like the way we approached LA in the Finals. Let Kobe and Shaq get theres and keep everyone else in check.

    I think the Hill trade was one part pimp, one part luck and one part common sense. Add water and stir. In the end, whatever you want to call it, I like how this one tasted.
  11. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Ok, this issue is over.
  12. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Re: Bad GM --- Danny Ainge Boston Celtics

    You probably already know this. 4 or so years ago the Celtics knocked the Pistons out of the playoffs. May have been a broom job. The last game we lost 62 to 60. The term ugly was used to describe the aftermath. So instead of building on what they had which includes keeping the best pieces, Danny traded Ant. Walker. Paul Pierces main running buddy. After failing for 2 seasons Danny brings Ant. W. back. And they get a little better. But they give up him again.
    ..Isn't this simular to BBens situation. [much different talent levels though] He's a guy that brings intangables that can only be measured in wins. And the team system must be right for a guy to flourish. Taking a step back to take 2 steps forward didn't work for Danny.
    ...Next up Rod Thorn, not real bad but couldn't clear that last hurdle.
    Why give up on Kenyon Martin? :confused:

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