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Barry Vs Emmit Debate!

Discussion in 'Football, Baseball, and Hockey' started by Dakid_11, Jul 12, 2006.

  1. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    What happened? You get too many Barry votes and your Dallas server crashed?
    :laugh:

    Just playin'. You seem like a decent guy (other than the Cowboy thing). Hope you get everything up and running again. :thumb:
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Looks like DCFU's host is having power problems...

     
  3. Dakid_11

    Dakid_11 Second Round Draft Pick

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    The site is back up and running...

    Come on over. There have already been some posts supporting Barry and Emmit.

    Unfortunately, there are not enough barry supporters. So please come over to show your support.:)

    On another note, allow me to make a few points here before heading back.

    I keep hearing how barry had no line and how how some of yall's grandmother could run behind the dallas O-line.

    Well I'm not gonna pretend to know any of your grandparents but I am willing to bet that your grandmother can not run the ball near as well as Derrick Lassic, Sherman Williams, Coleman, Chris Warren, or Troy Hambrick. (OK, I might have to say your garandmother ran better than hambone :laugh: )

    My point is that Dallas never got the job done with any of these guys. So you really can't give all the credit to the Dallas O-line.

    You say Barry NEVER had a line? Well in'95, the Lions had the top passing offense in the NFL and the #1 ranked total offense in the NFL, you don't think that was all Barry do you?....Mitchell had a pro bowl type of year along with Herman Moore, who at the time was one of the top 5 WRs in the NFL, with Brett Perriman on the other side at WR and some good slot WRs, the Lions had an excellent all around offense in the Fontes years. (Thanx to Deputy for this info)

    After all this are you trying to say that Detroit had no line? In order to have a #1 rated offense it has to satrt in the trenches. Anyone will tell you that's where a good offense starts.

    Another point.... Didn't the lions run a run n shoot offense? Doesn't this spread Defenses so that Barry didn't have as many 8 man fronts to worry about? Just something to chew on.

    If you'd like to dispute any of this, the invitation is still open at he DCFU !

    Come on over!
     
  4. bezeach

    bezeach First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    My grandma and GREAT GRANDMOTHER could of ran through the Dallas line, and they are both pretty old! :nod:
     
  5. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    You still haven't convinced me to go and register on a Dallas forum, but just to counter a couple of your points.

    True, the Lions did have one season in which they had the best offence. One out of 10 ain't bad I guess. But as for the other years... not so much.

    As for the Lions having a run n shoot offense which opened up the D for Barry. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Try the other way around.

    Barry was THE number one guy on ANY team that teams ALWAYS talked about having to stop. It was always about stopping Barry. He received more attention than any single running back in history. Teams practiced specifically to stop Barry. They were trained to stay at home and that a play is never over until the whistle blows, because eventually, Barry will make his way back towards you.

    Barry is the reason the passing game was so good that year, not the other way around. Everyone was so worried about containing Barry, that all Mitchell had to do was throw it up and it was a big gain. Heck, Jeff Moon Ball Garcia could have ran that offence.

    Again, I'm not saying Emmitt isn't an elite back. I'm just saying that Barry is THE elite back.
     
  6. bezeach

    bezeach First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    The thread should now be titled: "Is there anybody out there who would take Emmitt over Berry?

    If this were a poll it would be about 95% Barry and 5% Emmitt. Can this even be classified as an argument?
     
  7. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Com'mon Jamm, Barry didn't run with power.
    You have to have your feet on the ground to run with power.
    And if he ran with power why so many plays for a loss?
     
  8. Dakid_11

    Dakid_11 Second Round Draft Pick

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    Well Duh!:doh:

    We're on a Detroit board!:laugh: :laugh:
     
  9. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I said he could beat you with power, but he wasn't really a power back, nor was he known for his power.

    But watch some of those vids on YouTube. Barry was running OVER guys. He was the one initiating the contact, and the defender would go flying. Or the one where he carries a defender for about 10 yards right into the end zone.

    I'm not talking being elusive or slippery - which he was, and was much more a part of his game. I'm talking about power. Barry had extremely powerful legs, and calves (otherwise they'd snap the way he changed direction on a dime), a low centre of gravity with a powerful upper body.

    There were a couple of clips where 2 or 3 players would be tackling him and Barry would be the only one left standing.

    Common TheeFTD, you can't blame Barry's losses on not being powerful enough. There were 2 reasons for Barry's negative yards.

    1. The Lions offense was SO predictable. It was Barry or Bust. EVERY team knew that Barry was their bread and butter and EVERY team was focusing on stoppinghim.

    2. Barry never gave up on a play. He would never just go down. Barry would fight you to the very end. Sometimes that resulted in him losing extra yards when any other back would have given up on the play. But for every play he lost extra yards on, there were about 5 that he made something out of nothing. When it looked like he was going to go down for a loss and he'd turn it into a 60 yard TD run. Like the clip against Buffalo, when there were about 5 Bills in the backfield, 3 of them holding onto Barry, but he still managed to get positive yards out of the play.
     
  10. Dakid_11

    Dakid_11 Second Round Draft Pick

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    [/quote]You still haven't convinced me to go and register on a Dallas forum, but just to counter a couple of your points.

    True, the Lions did have one season in which they had the best offence. One out of 10 ain't bad I guess. But as for the other years... not so much.[/quote]
    [FONT=Arial Black, Helvetica, sans-serif]1991 NFC Divisional Playoff[/FONT]1/5/1992Dallas6 DETROIT38[FONT=Arial Black, Helvetica, sans-serif]1991 NFC Championship[/FONT]1/12/1992DETROIT10 Washington41[FONT=Arial Black, Helvetica, sans-serif]1993 NFC First-Round Playoff[/FONT]1/8/1994Green Bay28 DETROIT24[FONT=Arial Black, Helvetica, sans-serif]1994 NFC First-Round Playoff[/FONT]12/31/1994DETROIT12 Green Bay16[FONT=Arial Black, Helvetica, sans-serif]1995 NFC First-Round Playoff[/FONT]12/30/1995DETROIT37 Philadelphia58[FONT=Arial Black, Helvetica, sans-serif]1997 NFC First-Round Playoff[/FONT]12/28/1997DETROIT10 Tampa Bay20

    I believe this is more than just 1 outta ten years. You're saying that this is all barry? He had to have someone around him to make the playoffs.

    [/quote]As for the Lions having a run n shoot offense which opened up the D for Barry. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Try the other way around.

    Barry was THE number one guy on ANY team that teams ALWAYS talked about having to stop. It was always about stopping Barry. He received more attention than any single running back in history. Teams practiced specifically to stop Barry. They were trained to stay at home and that a play is never over until the whistle blows, because eventually, Barry will make his way back towards you.

    Barry is the reason the passing game was so good that year, not the other way around. Everyone was so worried about containing Barry, that all Mitchell had to do was throw it up and it was a big gain. Heck, Jeff Moon Ball Garcia could have ran that offence.[/quote]You still haven't anwered my question about who faced more 8 man fronts.

    [/quote]Again, I'm not saying Emmitt isn't an elite back. I'm just saying that Barry is THE elite back.[/quote]

    I'm not saying Barry isn't elite either but Emmit was more complete.
     
  11. Dakid_11

    Dakid_11 Second Round Draft Pick

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    Sorry for the mixup above. This should be a lil more ledgible.LOL

    [FONT=Arial Black, Helvetica, sans-serif]1991 NFC Divisional Playoff[/FONT]1/5/1992Dallas6 DETROIT38
    [FONT=Arial Black, Helvetica, sans-serif]1991 NFC Championship[/FONT]1/12/1992DETROIT10 Washington41
    [FONT=Arial Black, Helvetica, sans-serif]1993 NFC First-Round Playoff[/FONT]1/8/1994Green Bay28 DETROIT24
    [FONT=Arial Black, Helvetica, sans-serif]1994 NFC First-Round Playoff[/FONT]12/31/1994DETROIT12 Green Bay16
    [FONT=Arial Black, Helvetica, sans-serif]1995 NFC First-Round Playoff[/FONT]12/30/1995DETROIT37 Philadelphia58
    [FONT=Arial Black, Helvetica, sans-serif]1997 NFC First-Round Playoff[/FONT]12/28/1997DETROIT10 Tampa Bay20

    I believe this is more than just 1 outta ten years. You're saying that this is all barry? He had to have someone around him to make the playoffs.

    You still haven't anwered my question about who faced more 8 man fronts.

    I'm not saying Barry isn't elite either but Emmit was more complete.
     
  12. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    There is something to the predictable O thing, that's why Philly intercepted us so bad that playoff game. But the years we ran the R&S teams were baffled. But instead of running up the score when we had them on the ropes Wayneo would go conservative.:frusty:
    If Barry caught you off balance which he usually did, then he could power for more yards.
    What about the seasons he was being caught from behind?
     
  13. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Thats easy, Barry all the way. Like I said, teams knew that Barry was the Lions' bread and butter. Everyone that played the Lions had one goal - stop Barry.
     
  14. Dakid_11

    Dakid_11 Second Round Draft Pick

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    I don't recall Barry facing as many 8man fronts as Emmit.
     
  15. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Not surprising, since you're a Cowboys fan. :P
     
  16. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  17. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    I didn't see this thread as I was out of town during its run.

    What people forget is that the term "feature back" came into being with the career of Barry Sanders. He didn't want another back in the game when he played. No such nonsense as a halfback or a fullback, Barry did it alone. The guy in Dallas had one of the finest fullbacks in the game softening up linebackers even before Emmitt got to the line. With Barry alone in the game, The Lions basically said, "He's getting the ball...try to stop him". Not so with Dallas, as the fullback got 4-6 handoffs during the course of a game...also serving as a decoy. The only decoy that Barry used was his dust...which is what most first tacklers got when they arrived at the scene.

    I give Emmitt credit though as he took a pounding during his 15 year career. As a north/south runner, he was clobbered by tacklers. Barry never gave a would be tacklers a clean shot to hit him. I would guess that he coulda played another 5 seasons, amassing another 6,500 yards. Those numbers, with a Super Bowl appearance, would have ended this debate.

    My final analysis is that Emmitt Smith was the better back, as he had the ball in his hands during crunch time and scored key TDs. He also kept drives alive longer by avoiding being tackled behind the line of scrimmage. We don't like to admit it but Barry killed many chances for scoring by ending drives. Emmitt played his full career and gained more yards than Barry. Emmitt won multiple Super Bowls as Barry wasn't even able to have a winning record during his career. Stars always want the ball in their hands during crunch time. Before the start of his 11th season, Barry no longer wanted the ball...
     
  18. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    It's hard to fault a player for his coach taking him out of the game. I remember watching games where Barry would get the team all the way down the field, then getting taken out of the game on the goal line only to watch his backup fumble the ball on the 1 yard line.

    Barry kept more drives alive in 1 season than Smith did in his entire career.

    Sure he had more negative runs than any other back in history, but to me, that just makes his accomplishments even more impressive. He had more rushing yards and a higher average than Smith did over the same amount of time DESPITE having all of those negative runs. All of those negative #s count in his totals and he STILL averaged almost 1 yard more per run than Smith.

    True, but it took him considerably more years and more carries to do it.

    Football more than any other is a team sport. It's hard to fault Barry for not having any rings. Swap the teams of these two players and it's not even close.
     
  19. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Barry was taken out of games in goal line situations because he couldn't move the pile. Wayne tried him on the 1 yard line and Barry had no success. Emmitt was able to move the pile as he was a better north/south runner.


    Unfortunately for Barry...he was stopped behind the line of scrimmage over 600 times. This was many more times than Emmitt, many more chances to end a drive.



    Emmitt stayed with the Cowboys, even after 1995 when they saw a decline in their O-line play. He continued to maintain a high production rate gaining 1000 yards for 6 straight years. Barry Quit when he felt he couldn't win the big one with the Lions...
     
  20. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree with you that Emmitt was a much better straight ahead runner and in short yardage situations, but I also think that part of Barry's poor performance on the goal line was due to being used improperly in those situations (as well as in every other situation).

    I feel that Emmitt's surroundings (scheme, coaching, talent around him, etc.) helped make him a better player, while Barry excelled DESPITE his surroundings.

    True (although I read that the total was only 336 times), but he also had more TD runs of over 50 yards than anyone else and is 4th on the all time yards from scrimmage list (Smith is 2nd, but with only 3389 more than Barry, despite playing half a decade more).

    I was very pissed at Barry when he quit. But he also went out ON TOP OF HIS GAME. Something that VERY few athletes do. He would be #1 in almost every single offensive category if he had continued on for a few more years. Heck, the only reason we can even have this debate is because of that fact. Had he continued on, it would be no contest.
     

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