BBen vs Flip...Disrespect or Bad Coaching

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TheeTFD, Apr 10, 2006.

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BBen or Flip pick a side...

  1. As a team leader BBen has to vocal up.

    27.0%
  2. Flip is coach and can do what he wants with the Rots.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. BBen can't lose it in public

    29.7%
  4. Flip didn't play to win...GAME INTEGRITY !

    5.4%
  5. BBen deserves a fine

    35.1%
  6. Did Flip not comm. like a professional

    5.4%
  7. Is Bup-Bup-Bup the best PG in the NBA?

    5.4%
  8. all of the above...no win situation

    13.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    BBen publicly scorned his coach and refused to do his job.
    Possibly because the coach was messing with the game integrity buy using subs.
    ...Were do you stand?
    multi choice and public
    Try and pick one of the two choices, ok Warts.
     
  2. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Dude. You have a serious Poll Addiction. I'm abstaining from this poll for your own good. Consider this an intervention.
     
  3. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    I have a chance to vote for Ben and against Flip simultaneously?:bounce:
     
  4. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    AHB I don't know about you. You come on as authoritarian but you throw Flip under the bus. He's only kicked every coaches aZZ this year!
    We could cut him a little slack. As could BBen.
    ...PastFlor, Moses with the help of God on high over threw the God of Egypt. Poor Rames, divine intervention.
     
  5. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Wow... way to put a QUESTION as an answer...

    :laugh:
     
  6. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    I don't like the options, so I'll just add my own:

    x Flip kept this from escalating AND his substitutions got the Pistons back in the game, so maybe he's a better coach than we care to admit.

    What's worth remembering is that Flip coached Kevin Garnett, another very emotional guy who takes losing hard. I think he knows that you give leeway to a guy who's willing to do the dirty work and serve the team cause as his own, even if that means a "double standard" with lesser players.
     
  7. crastinator

    crastinator First Round Draft Pick

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    LanierFan-

    Nicely put. Thanks for bringing a level headed response to the discussion. Maybe Flip is the ultimate team player as well - doesn't care about how he is viewed by fans, media, etc as long as his players are with him.
     
  8. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    ben deserves a fine. if this was delfino or the late darko milicic everybody would be calling for thier heads. ben i think we made the wrong move trading darko to free up space for ben. maybe we were freeing up more than just money for ben. ben may have wanted darko moved because he saw the way darko would slowly eat his minutes away. out of all of the pistons ben is the only one that doesn't want to give up minutes. no wonder flip couldn't find 8 minutes for darko.

    ben's ego is getting to big. can you believe he's actually complaining about not getting touches on the offensive end. a fine would bring him back to reality.
     
  9. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Shouldn't public displays of insubordination be automaticly elevated to Joe D jurisdiction.
     
  10. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree. For an example of how a coach can take a bad situation and make it worse look at Chris Ford and his handling of Iverson in 2004.

    He wants to bring Iverson off the bench coming off an injury. Iverson refuses to play at all.

    On Sunday, Allen Iverson refused to play in a game where coach Chris Ford sought to bring him off the bench, as opposed to starting. Ford had concluded that Iverson, who was recovering from injuries, would be better served coming into an already started game than have to pick up the flow against the starters. It's an interesting theory on Ford's part. One can't help but wonder if Ford's decision was colored by his stated annoyance about Iverson's bad practice habits.

    On the one hand, we decry Iverson's immaturity in this case. But Ford needed to handle this controversy with a bit more aplomb. On one level, Ford has to be tough to maintain some sense of authority with his players but any really ugly head butting with a star is a death knell to a coach. Additionally, if the Sixers have enough of Iverson's antics, they don't really need to publicize what kind of a pain in the ass he is to all the teams that might be willing to trade for him.

    The traditionalists (notable George Karl) lament about how Ford, and coaches in general, have trouble controlling stars and the unfairness of such a situation. But the fact is that being an NBA coach, or manager of any professional team, is a delicate balance. No coach will be truly successful in the long term with a scorched earth policy of conflict resolution. Putting Iverson in his place for a game might feel good but it won't change Iverson's behavior, it won't preserve his trade value, it won't actually give the coach credibility with the team, and, most importantly, won't help the team win more games.

    http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/qt22.htm

    Bad coaching.
     
  11. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    glad to see someone is picking up where lee left off. :laugh:
     
  12. bdubya

    bdubya Second Round Draft Pick

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    Ben chose the wrong way to send the right message. Flip was right to let it slide; Ben admitted he was wrong, and no way in hell is he gonna make the same mistake again. A fine or suspension would be extraneous, trying to send Ben a message that he's already received loud and clear. The team's moved on; we should all do the same.
     
  13. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Maybe I missed it but I saw a contrite Ben Wallace, who was standing his ground.
     
  14. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Nier, When BBen lost it, the team responded, we where down to the team Darko got traded to and BBen didn't like it. BBJ is right, it was BBens minutes [and Sheeds and Dyess'] that Darko would have TAKEN. The conflict was removed.
    ...Bills, nice of you to remind us of the fact that if million dollar scrub coaches can't nurture, coddle and promote winning with his 10 million dollar star players, he can look for a new job. It was a rude awakening to the good ole boy network when BBallers stood their egotistical ground and demanded star treatment. If you can't keep the talent happy you can't win. What are you gonna do? You hire better socially adjusted coaches like the Zen Master whom the players will attempt to respect.
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    BBen did make a weak apology on TV, I think. So I don't think he is still contrite.
     
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This is the most insightful thing you have written to my recollection.
     
  16. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

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    I disagree that Ben was completely making a point to Flip by not coming in.

    I think he was really sending a to his teamates.

    I have been frustrated with the way they've been playing the last few months; letting the other team get a double digit lead in the third, and then having to comeback, with as Ben put it "Superhuman Effort".

    Yeah, he did say the bench needs to play more, and I don't think the bench has been the ones letting the other team run up the lead.

    But, I'm sick of watching the Pistons play that style of comeback in the third or fourth basketball, and I'm just watching. Imagine having to play it everynight. It would wear you out more than in needed.

    If Flip couldn't influence the guys enough, so be it, let Ben do it.

    PS - Stop 2nd guessing the brother, he's been nothing but a class act his entire career.
     
  17. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Ben admitted he messed up...

    ..everyone saves face.

    Time to keep it movin'.

    The public would love to see a kink in the Pistons "unified front" armor. Thank God our coach didn't give them the satisfaction.
     
  18. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Being the class act that you state (and I also believe) him to be, wouldn't Ben accept in a professional manner whatever organizational consequences came from his behavior, and move on.
     
  19. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    That's a good point, and one that's been ignored way too much. It wasn't Flip getting killed off the dribble by Jameer Nelson or slacking off under the boards. You can't tell me that a big part of that anger wasn't created because Chauncey and Sheed decided to enjoy "Senior Skip Day" against Orlando.
     
  20. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Starov, that's what others have been trying to say, that the players effort was flaking at the edges and the coach was missing it.
    Pride, what did Flip do?
     

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