BBen vs Flip...Disrespect or Bad Coaching

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TheeTFD, Apr 10, 2006.

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BBen or Flip pick a side...

  1. As a team leader BBen has to vocal up.

    27.0%
  2. Flip is coach and can do what he wants with the Rots.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. BBen can't lose it in public

    29.7%
  4. Flip didn't play to win...GAME INTEGRITY !

    5.4%
  5. BBen deserves a fine

    35.1%
  6. Did Flip not comm. like a professional

    5.4%
  7. Is Bup-Bup-Bup the best PG in the NBA?

    5.4%
  8. all of the above...no win situation

    13.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    As fans we want fire and brimstone. We feel entitled to huge effort 100% of the time from players. But someone's going to have to explain something to me. Is Flip supposed to scream at the players because they don't take a game against Orlando seriously, when they're 11 games ahead of anybody in the East? Is he supposed to fine and bench guys because they only won 6 out of 7? Or is he just supposed to tell them that the Magic said bad things about their mamas?

    * Doug Collins coached the way some fans would like Flip to coach. But Doug Collins isn't coaching anybody anymore, because he didn't know when to ease off.

    * Chuck Daly is a saintly figure here, but anyone who was around in those days knew that the Bad Boys took games off. And Chuck has always said that players let you coach them.

    Yeah, it's irritating to watch the team slack off. But that's human nature, and the important thing is what they do in May and June. If the Pistons do that in the playoffs, I'll chip in for the tar and feathers myself. Otherwise it's good to keep things in (God forbid!) perspective.
  2. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

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    I would assume so, and I don't hear Ben complaining or making excuses. He said "what happened, happened, I can't dwell on it because I can't change it"...

    I think he is accepting "in a professional manner whatever organizational consequences came from his behavior, and move on"
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't really understand the choices.
  4. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I'm surprized no one thinks Flip can do whatever he wants with the rotations...rots for short.
  5. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Flip said, "Ben wasn't ready to go" as opposed to airing out the dirty laundry a la Larry.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Ben and Flip actually had a closed door discussion and agreed to let it die.

    That's the way to handle it.

    Flip's official response probably gives Joey D. and Mr. Davidson some degree of validation. One thing is for certain, Flip is a breath of fresh air compared to the theatrics we saw during last year's attempted championship run.
  6. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    But did BBen give him the finger too, or did he just say he wasn't going back in?
  7. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    He was just confirming that Flip wanted ONE Inflatable Defender delivered to his house.
  8. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    right or wrong, the team is handling the situation well. If a team can police themselves so to speak then its best to let them do that.
  9. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    If BBen showed Flip his middle finger, I change my vote. Fine his azz.
    I thought he just said no. Now, I use my middle finger sometimes to, but with much more discretion, of disrespect !
    ------------------------------------------------
    It looks like the score is 15 to 7, BBen was way out of line.
    The no win votes were nulls.
    But for Eyes#1 to go Scotty Pimpen on him was excessive. :laugh: :mad:
  10. snoopol

    snoopol Second Round Draft Pick

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    I work with a guy who saw them in night club in Orlando just couple hours after the Miami game.
  11. max

    max All-Star

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    I don't like what he did but he did it in protest of the way the team has been playing and not what he has not been getting.

    When Delfino voiced off last season it was about him. This was about the team. Ben knew that mickey mouse crap would not have cut it in the post-season.

    Hey it worked, the teams playing great now and Flip/Ben appear to have it behind them.
  12. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    don't get it mixed up. this was about ben too. he didn't like being taken out. he didn't like another player getting what he felt was his minutes. he feels left out of the offense. ben needs to step up his game. he has no right to complain about when the others players bring it. chauncey and sheed are clutch. they don't burn out because they take a few nights off during the season they have talent to back it up.
  13. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    For the record I believe that Ben's actions were effective but unproffesional. About the Ben offensive touches debate, I think Ben needs to shoot more than 30% from the line to have a legitmate beef.
  14. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Steven A. Smith reported that Joe D did have a talk with Ben about the incident and made it clear that he recognized his value to the team but that should be the first and last time for that type of stuff.
  15. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Damn BBJ what are you saying? CB and Sheed can take a night off, cause they can turn it on an off? But BBen can't because he has no talent?
    There will be nights when the game just won't come to you.
    ...BBens still losing this at a 2 to 1 rate.
  16. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    yes. that is what i'm saying. there have been nights when sheeds and chaunceys shots weren't falling in crunch time.

    but ben's free throws are never falling. his alley oops aren't connecting like they used to. he wants more touches so that means his ego isn't in check. ben's man is always double teaming.

    ben doesn't have things that he can turn off and on. he can't get his shot when he wants to. he can't hit free throws when he wants to. he can't become an offensive threat when he wants to. he can't stop shaq when he wants to.

    maybe ben should take some games off so he won't be tired in the finals like he was last year. if he had allowed lb to use elden more to rest him on shaq ben could have been ready for timmy a more favorable matchup for him.
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Who can stop Shaq when they want to? In fact, since it is such a deficiency for Ben (mentioned by you in two threads), name two guys. Apparently you think this is something most players can do and Ben cannot. And please don't bore me with who you *think* can. I want to know who has consistently shut Shaq down since 1996. Elden Campbell doesn't count. I'm talking starters.

    Now you are just clowning around man. You stop blaming LB and blame Ben for his getting beat up by Shaq? The guy is a frickin hero for taking on Shaq throughout that series, and now you are trying to paint him as some kind of minute hog? That he stood in the path of a bulldozer for his own glory?

    You need help. Stop hating on Ben. He ain't looking for shots, he's looking to get touches, to spread the "D". Yeah, his man is double teaming because he never is passed the ball. If you watched the Indy game, you would have seen him giving up decent post looks to give the jumpshooters open shots. Ben's never been selfish unless it is about playing winning basketball. You are way out of line to question his motivations.

    [This is where I overstep my bounds and get a little personal] Some of the younger fans blow my mind. I don't think you guys have seen the low, the high, the low and the high again to have the perspective to tear down the team's current studs in favour of a rebuilding process. You're spoilt by the success of the team. You assume it will always be like this, and that players are interchangeable mid-stream on a contender.

    It doesn't work like that. Every championship team has a core that once eroded (regardless of who is added) starts a decline. There is a certain magic to this. It's not a birthright, it's a blessing.

    You won't understand until we are in the lottery again. That's assuming that you can let go of the speculation that Darko is basketball's saviour and see that 29 teams come up short every year. Several of them with the same front office, coaching and ownership acumen that Detroit possesses.
  18. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I think Sheed "wants" Duncan. And handled him very well this year. I know Duncan is wounded, and that will cost them a repeat.
    I'm not ready to throw BBen under the bus. We've always thought BBen did the dirty work because he liked to. Not because that's all he could do. JD didn't bring him in here to be a O center. He brought him in to be a Worm/Beer.
    ...I don't see us losing if he gets 10 pts. a nite in the playoffs. Whatever that takes. He knows Flip wants scorers and wants to be involved. He knows we will need a complete game from everybody come playoffs. Not guys jacking up 3s all nite on a hope and a prayer.
  19. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    nobody can play shaq well except maybe yao. i'm just not impressed with ben playing him one on one cause shaq scores every time. this is more of a coaching decision to allow shaq to get his. not ben wallace being a good defender and being able to handle the job. i do know shaq clogs up the paint on defense when ben is in there. i know shaq rests on defense when ben is in there. i know shaq tires out quickly if he has to play the pick and roll something we can't do with ben in there.
    ben thinks he should be on the floor no matter what. at first i blamed lb for not playing elden but with ben's recent behavior and comments i think it may have been more lb wanting to keep ben happy. not wanting to bruise ben's ego by starting elden over him.

    his man is double teaming because it doesn't matter if he is passed the ball he won't score anyway. passing to ben is just adding a middle man. if you watched the opening shot of all the games last year passing to ben is an adventure that usually ends up with a brick or airball and a yell of "oh" and the other team going the other way. ben should not want to touch the ball on O he might get fouled.
    i know how it works but it doesn't have to be like that. it doesn't have to be a core and a 5 year title run then back to rebuilding. it works like that with traditionaly built teams but it doesn't have to be like that. look at san antonio they had the good fortune of adding tim duncan and it extended thier dynasty. we had the good fortune of adding darko and we decided not to extend ours. i know we are in a good position now but i don't think you throw the future out of the window just because the present is good.if we are in the lottery it will because we let our frontline get old and hung on to players too long.
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok, I disagree on Yao. Historically Shaq has absolutely abused him. But I'll give you Yao which would make Yao the only guy out of 29 other starting centers who in your opinion can stop Shaq. Pretty rare hunh?

    How about Elden was incredibly old and purposely got himself out of shape on the NJ bench?

    Two things. One, no one leaves Ben Wallace wide open with the ball unless he is 10+ feet from the hoop. In the paint, Ben draws doubles.

    The other; there are two benefits to drawing fouls. One is free throws, the other is taking a player out of his game or reducing his aggressiveness. Ben did a great job with Shaq like this in the last Miami game.

    Pie in the sky thinking. You're asking to break a proven cycle when it has never been done before. Idealistic, but definitely not realistic. I'm pretty sure that Joe doesn't deal with "dream" scenarios.

    Tim Duncan WAS the dynasty. They hadn't won any big games until he arrived. They lucked out that DR was injured and got the bounce with the lottery balls to draft Duncan. If Robinson never gets injured, I feel pretty confident saying that they never win a title. It's luck man. Like trading Hill and Stack before injuries wreck their careers. You can't plan for what hasn't happened yet. Just pray to the basketball Gods for some good fortune.

    You should see the video I posted yesterday. Joe seems to disagree with you. The time is NOW. The urgency is NOW. He's been there, the down, the up, the down and up again. The man knows what he is talking about.

    You're close. If we are in the lottery, it's because Joe will have to deal players for expiring contracts to clean up and make room to rebuild. he won't keep bums on the roster, but at the same time, he won't overreact. If there is one thing he learned from the Bad Boys GM, I hope it is that you can't hold onto a youngster if it ain't happening (William Bedford) and you can't part out the team and stay competitive. It all rests on keeping what you have together for as long as possible.

    I can't argue with you anymore. My wrists hurt. I've said all I can. It just saddens me that you love the Pistons so much and cannot see value in Ben.

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