Ben just hired the most powerful agent in the NBA

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by SKluck, May 14, 2006.

  1. SKluck

    SKluck First Round Draft Pick

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    Uh Oh.

    http://www.mlive.com/pistons/stories/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/114760142269780.xml&coll=1

    I thought he didn't need an agent, just a lawyer? Why does he need such a good agent, who would undoubtably take a larger chunk of the last contract of his career than a lesser known agent that would get the job done?

    This is interesting. If Ben wants $13-14+ mil a year, do you give it to him?
  2. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Just can't see Ben holding out for a bigger payday... not really sure what the agent's % is but he must have assured Ben that he'd improve from what he was seeking.
    What concerns me is that Ben might now get a trade kicker which could effect a deal as his contract expires.... he also could demand more years on his deal now.
  3. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Ben don't like Flip, he may be looking for a coach he can play with. No Darko, maybe no Ben, pretty soon no Delfino, thanks a lot Flip.
  4. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    Ben doesn't like any coach. Granted, he seems to dislike Flip more than he did Carlisle or LB, but I don't think it would be enough to keep him from accepting max $$$.

    At this moment in time Ben is irreplaceable, so it looks like the Pistons are going to have to pay him max $$$ whether he's going to be worth it now, or a year or two from now, or not. I completely agree with mercury that the possibility of a trade kicker is the biggest problem.

    Ben really has the Pistons in a bind here. There are even a couple of sign-and-trades I'd pursue if I were Joe Dumars and Ben demanded too much, but as an unrestricted FA, there's no way to pull off any of them without his assent.
  5. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Sign and trade Ben to Orlando for Darko and Arroyo.
    :sorry:
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Better get T-Mac, Hill and Hedo back too. Darko hates Detroit (mutual from my end) and there are not enough Puerto Ricans in Michigan to make it worthwhile to bring Arroyo back.

    Ben got Carlisle fired in my opinion. I don't buy the front office story. I don't think he hates Flip more. Just my impression.

    Without knowing the terms of the agreement with Tellum, it's premature to read too much into this. If Ben agreed upon a flat fee (the reason why he fired his previous agent for trying to sneak in a % commission), then he simply got the best in the business to look over his offers and make suggestions. Agents make the big bucks when they do the negotiating.

    I expect the Pistons damage control teams to have a response through the reporters no later than Tuesday.
  7. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i second that. :fingerscr
  8. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Shoulda kept Darko in case some bull%%%% came up. Not like we couldn't have dumped Darko in the offseason to one of those capspace teams like Atlanta for a pick or something once Ben signed on the dotted line.

    I worry about this for a couple reasons. A) Ben doesn't like Flip. Period. He is (rightfully) left out of the offense, and Flip doesn't seem to give a damn about D. B) Arn Tellum plays hardball. This guy is no joke. Ben hired an agent that will suck every penny out of the deal. C) Bill Davidson isn't the type of owner that will throw money to the wind.

    That creates quite a situation.
  9. Reve

    Reve First Round Draft Pick

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    If we win this year then I say pay him. If we don't win this year then I don't know. Ben is my favorite player right now but I don't know if he is worth killing our future for if we can't win the whole thing.
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    FP22,
    We may be in the minority, but I agree that Joe shoulda waited till summer to move DMC.... he could have brought more value as teams are reshaping their rosters to show their fan base they're attempting to improve the team....
    As it turns out the Orlando pick likely won't be a lottery pick next year.... his value was at an all time low and could only go up with some decent summer play.
    Some might say there was a sense of urgency because of his attitude... I highly doubt Darko would cause a single loss with his pouting.
    We still don't know that Ben is 100% locked up with a new deal...
    I'm completely dissapointed with Dale Davis... he looked about as slow as EC out there without the bulk needed for Shaq insurance.... at this point Kato looked like an improvement in his short stints... after ignoring him there's not much chance of re-signing Kato...so we may go into next season with an unstable big man situation.
  11. rdang

    rdang First Round Draft Pick

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    Ben's the main reason I'm a Pistons fan. Years ago when I was a teenager and Ben got traded here - I got the basketball bug cause I realized this sport had a great defensive side that I've never seen before. Couple that with the postive, hard working image of Ben and you had little 5'7 teenagers (back than) like me blocking 6'0+ guys on the court and outrebounding them like its nobody's business. I bit into the idea of Pistons DNA and everyone ridiculed me for it.

    Fast forward a few years later and who's laughing now?

    But if Ben takes advantage of this situation I'm going to lose a lot of respect for him. He deserves his money - yes - but don't go out there saying you want to stay in Detroit, how self-less you are and all about the team, than turn around and demand big money.

    Bad, bad, piss poor ethics in my opinion if he does that. And coming from a university kid who took Business Ethics and aced it with flying colours - I can back up guaran-sheed. Might as well stick Ben in there with the likes of Larry Brown.
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    You guys do have a point on making a case for Ben not liking Flip. Do not have to look much further than the Orlando game when Ben refused to return. Ben wants more involvement in the offense and has made several comments to that effect throughout the season.

    In this case it could be Ben simply wanting a bigger payday and being willing to work with Flip. Its going to be hard for Ben to convince any coach that he should be a bigger part of the offense no matter where he goes. But who knows what other teams will tell him to get him to sign.

    Lets worry about this over the summer. If the Pistons do not win it all then some guys are going to get moved anyway. And if the Pistons win and Ben decides to go then he decides to go.

    On that max deal. 15 or so mil will be a lot to pay a player for what Ben will be giving us in his 4th or 5th year of the contract.
  13. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Starter 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    this sounds like Ben's losing his character- hating the coaches, hiring one of the penny squeezers as an agent, refusing to enter a game, etc- some things that accumulate. If he wants more than 3 years I wouldn't do it, the reasons have been discussed in here for several times (too old given the fact he relies more on his fitness than other bigs is the main reason why he has about 3 more good years left, not more).
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Actually, Ben hasn't said a lot about wanting to stay in Detroit. He's been very careful to answer the questions so as not to create controversy. And he's entitled to big money. Are you saying that if JD lowballs him, he should just take it?

    That may be "business ethical" in the classrom, but my practical experience in business says that you charge as much as the client will pay. You honor your deal once it is made but you fight, finagle and work that payday as big as you can. When you start introducing morals and emotions into business, things go awry. The very nature of free agency is an open market place. If the Pistons do not pay what the market will bear for Ben, then they lose his services. Google for a UFA listing for this offseason and tell me who could replace his services (at any cost).

    Smart business says that when your cornerstone asset is in jeopardy of slipping to a competitor, you take steps to assure your advantage by overpaying if necessary.

    Ben already passed up his contract option. How much is he supposed to give? Just because he's the face of "Going To Work", doesn't mean he has to be the face of "Will Work for Cheap".

    Doesn't Joe Dumars also have to approach this ethically? How is it that he and Bill Davidson can "look out for the long term future of the franchise" and yet Ben is not allowed to look out for his best financial future? Business and negotiation is give and take. From both sides.
    You should be so hard on LeBron if he decides to move to a major market. He's been saying all of the right things too.
    Then you sign him to 4 so you can trade his expiring deal.

    Look, championships cannot be bought. The Knicks have proven that. The Pistons and Spurs have proven it. You cannot put a price on winning a title, and Ben has been a large part of that. He's been the face of Detroit basketball for 5 years. The Pistons have made insane money marketing and promoting him, not to mention the effect he had on court bringing the fans back into the stands.

    I don't expect to see Ben get maxed out, but it's not my money and I won't cry if he is. Davidson is a billionaire. He can "afford" it. The franchise has a lot to lose credibility wise by not taking care of Ben adequately.

    Remember when Tay's deal was up in the air for a few weeks? How quickly we forget that and move on to being pleased with the results.

    Bottom line, don't character assassinate Ben for trying to get paid (if that's even his intention). He's waited as long as possible to bring this up and provided everything you could ask for and more in the meantime. Best defender, champion, All-Star, massive promotional earnings.

    Consider this. micro does a service that is top notch. He charges $1000 for it. Someone hires you to do the same service with the understanding that they will compensate you based upon quality of work. You meet and exceed what micro would have done for $1000. Would you be pleased to be paid less?

    If you would, you're a lousy businessman man. You're lining someone else's pockets at your own expense.
  15. #1Pistonfan

    #1Pistonfan First Round Draft Pick 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Ben signing an agent is definitely NOT a good thing. He's changed his tune and the odds of him signing a deal around the same scale as the other starters is reduced dramatically.

    I think 4 yrs, around 10-12 per season is where he should be at. If he tries to demand too much I would look at our sign and trade options.
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You guys are killing me. I'd assume that almost every player has an agent.

    #1, S&T, you take salary back. Explain how this could work in the Pistons favor. There is no one in FA this year or next.

    That's my point. The Pistons have to pay, and Ben deserves some damn back pay. To do otherwise would be despicable!
  17. lurker

    lurker First Round Draft Pick

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    From detnews article: "Wallace will pay Tellem an hourly charge for services rendered." Ben will clearly be calling the shots here.
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  19. #1Pistonfan

    #1Pistonfan First Round Draft Pick 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Of course you have to take salary back. But I'd rather have 2 young guys (maybe picks) than ONE overpaid, aging Ben Wallace (close to 20 million a season at age 36).

    Just an example of a team interested- Chicago (who has tons of cap room - we dont need to take back the full salary). They have a bunch of young players I like and they seem like they'd be willing to move - Ben Gordon, Nocioni & Deng, not to mention a high draft pick from NY.

    Now it seems like I dont like Ben, but I do. I just dont want to pay him 20 million a season when he's 36-37.


    See, now it seems like I've really overreacted!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
  20. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    the part about credibility is huge. what happens down the road when we try to attract players to the franchise? right now since our starting 6 is set, we can get by on 'hey veterans, come here for cheap for a chance at winning the title', but this won't always be the case. you don't want to set a precedent by undercutting the face of your franchise...because what happens when the next one comes along? you don't want him to bolt outta town.

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