Ben Pippen Wallace

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Buckeyes#1, Apr 10, 2006.

  1. Buckeyes#1

    Buckeyes#1 First Round Draft Pick

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    Brain farts: We all have them on occassion. I think Ben had one. I think even Pippen had one. And who knows? Maybe I even had one today but am too stupid to see it right now. I will say this. I do have alot of respect for Pippen. You can't win 6 rings or whatever and be a loser. Everybody plays a fool sometime. I think Pippen had a lapse. I think Ben had a lapse. I think what Ben did was out of character. With all he has done for the team, I can see the argument that he deserves a free pass. Not sure I totally agree with it but I can at least understand where they are coming from. Nevertheless. I think it's time to draw this discussion to a close. Unless somebody is just dying to set me straight. I think its time we move on to other subjects that are more positive and less divisive. Hopefully Ben won't be remembered for this like Pippen has been. It's a good lesson to all of us to always be on guard. We can work our whole lives to develop a reputation and throw it away in a matter of seconds with one foolish decision. That is probably the greatest lesson we can all learn from this episode.
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Buckman, I only took offense to the Pip analogy because he was sulking over not getting to take the last shot. The play was being called for Kukoc.

    Ben was mad about the team and how they were playing. A lot of the stuff The Low covers in his Sour Notes. While the action was the same, the cause was different.

    I can respect that people are upset but if this happened with the Bad Boys, he would be a legend for standing up for bettering the team. These days, we isolate him from the message and only analyze the delivery.

    If Ben has a few more big games in him this playoffs, it's hard to fault him for one indiscretion. After all, he's ours. If we won't forgive him, how can we expect anyone else to?
     
  3. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    The only traitors here are the ones that did a clean 180.

    The only thing that concerns me is WHY it happened at all. Ben's not a guy that does this sort of thing so it goes beyond the game itself. Is it the past months play? Is it all season? A lot of people here have bemoaned the lack of vintage pistons hard nosed basketball.

    But honestly, there's too much at stake for the pistons to draw out the issue. That's why its over and done with (except here amongst the fans). Its a testament to ben and the guys that something like this can be a non issue at this point. I like how they responded to it in the following game. We'll see if the incident reflects permanent change.
     
  4. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    I'm GLAD Ben did it. This team needs a kick in the azz. This season has been a coast. With NJ looming large and playing the best ball in the Association right now, this team needs to be on its toes. If it takes a perceived prepubscent act on Ben's part, so be it. Besides, Flip has the emotion of a Supreme Court justice. He ain't gonna rally the troops. I like the workmanlike attitude the Pistons bring to the job, but you gotta emote once in a while. That's Ben's job. If Flip can't play ball, he can walk. If the Stones don't win it all this season, Flip CAN walk. He's dumbed-down the D on this team and I don't like it.
     
  5. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Nice job Buckeyes. It took guts to write that letter and I totally agree with you. No poll needed. You da man.

    I'm a die hard Pistons fan. My favourite player is Ben Wallace. But he screwed up. I have no doubt that Ben's intentions were good - Ben bleeds Red, White and Blue and he wears his heart on his sleeve - he just went about it the wrong way. If Ben had a problem with the way he was being used (if that's what it was actually about), then he should have talked to Flip about it after the game. And if that didn't work, go to Joe D and say, look I'm a free agent this offseason and I don't like the way I'm being used. He should not have made a public scene on national t.v. embarrassing his coach, and letting down his team in the process (similar to the way Dre Bly called out Harrington in the media).

    Everyone makes mistakes, but I do feel that he should be fined for it. He should not be allowed to go unpunished. Its becomming more and more clear that the inmates run the asylum under Flip's watch.

    Ben's comments after the fact were extremely hypocritical. He was saying one thing and by his actions, telling something completely different. I believe he owes Flip, the entire Pistons organization and the fans an apology. I'm not talking some big, drawn out sob story. I'm talking "Look, I messed up and I'm sorry." Thats it. All is forgiven, all is forgotten.
     
  6. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Right on! I agree one hundred percent. Bravo! Well put, my friend. Seems to me like Flip wasn't listening, and Ben had to take some drastic measures to get his attention. Mind you, I don't have anything against Flip, but I remember the team before Ben got here. I remember saying, who is this Ben Wallace chump with those horrible O numbers?

    I am truly a Pistons fan, but right after the Pistons, I am a Ben Wallace fan. It may not have been the best way to address the problem, but knowing Ben's reputation, I think he may have exhausted his options, and a message needed to be sent. No coincidence that the game immediately following "The Incident" was the first blowout in a long time. Anyone think we couldn't blow out the Magic, or the Bucks, etc. etc.?
     
  7. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    During the heat of competition rational thoughts can often be clouded...
    I think we need to consider the long term effects of fining your hardest working player in his contract year... not sure that pissing him off over this is worth the consequences.
    Yes this flys against equal rules for all (like Sheed sleeping in without consequences)... hopefully when it's all said and done they'll be crowding around the trophy again and this incident will be a minor blip.

    I've never thought of Ben playing for the stats to raise his $ value but it is possible that he'd like to have an opportunity to score more so it doesn't appear that his offense is on the decline...
    Ben is anything but selfish with the ball... often looking to hot potato to a teammate.
    This only remains a big deal if we & the media continue to harp on it.
    ZZZZZZzzzzzz
     
  8. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    ugh why are we still discussing this? ben and the team have moved on, let's do the same. ben made a mistake, he admitted he made a mistake, let's leave it at that. fining him would be about the dumbest thing the pistons could do in this situation.
     
  9. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Ben was wrong. Even IF his actions somehow turn out to improve the team, the end does not justify the means.

    He's a superstar on our favorite team in the world. This means he is better than most people in the world at playing basketball. It does not mean that he is superior to most people in other aspects of life, or that he makes better decisions. More people DO notice a Pro athlete's mistakes and therefore those mistakes tend to affect more people than those of Joe Blow.

    Athletes are human. It's unfair to expect athletes to be perfect and unrealistic to close our eyes to their mistakes in order to maintain that perception of perfection.

    We hold a high opinion of you Big Ben. Sometimes our strengths are also our weaknesses. You are an emotional guy. You made a boo boo. Apologize. Then let's move on. There is a 2006 championship trophy with your name on it...just waiting.
     
  10. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Will you still applaud if it happens again three weeks from now. Four weeks ........

    Some rules are ment for everybody. No exceptions. Joe ought to fine and suspend Ben.

    Nice letter Buckeyes#1
     
  11. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i completely disagree with you 100%. what would it solve? how would it help the team?

    simple: it would solve nothing and only hurt the team. i can't believe some of you are even suggesting it.
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I want to thank Buckeyes for posting his strong view. It made me think long and hard last night.

    This is a great topic because folks are so divided and yet for the most part we can all agree to disagree.
     
  13. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Ok, where do YOU draw the line.
    How do YOU as President and General Manager protect the authority of your coach whom YOU brought into this situation under the guise that we behave so professionally we don't do these EXACT type of things.
    Sure, it's bitter medicine, but an individual can not be allowed to run his own agenda to the detriment of the team. Doing nothing and/or waiting to act further diminishes Flips position.
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Can't we all agree that Ben Wallace and Steve Yzerman are 2 of the best team players in the history of Detroit sports?

    That is good enough for me.

    It is no fun to be the guy that does all the dirty work while everyone else gets 3 happy.
     
  15. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i fine and suspend ben if it happens again, but not for the first incident, especially when everyone on the pistons is past it already. i'm sure ben got a talking to. but a fine and/or suspension for this is going way overboard.
     
  16. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Now that the precident is set, what do you do when the next guy ain't Ben, and it's only his first infraction too. Furthermore what if the next guy is way down the depth chart. Does blatant favoritisim ring a bell.

    1) I never thought Joe would tolerate knuckehead behavior.
    2) Going forward, does Flip walk on eggshells when the tough decisions are necessary.

    We many not have superstars but we are in the superstar freepass giving business.
     
  17. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Like I said earlier most of us would have applauded him for doing this a few weeks ago, but not now. I don't think the discipline needs to be a suspension, but at least a fine and an embarrasing public apology would have sufficed IMO. That way when somebody else (Rip, CB, Sheed)tries it, they will think twice about it. When the ring is within reach...no suspensions should be dished out by the team. Leave that to the league.
     
  18. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    listen i understand what you're saying, but we're on a mission to win a championship right now and don't need to add any more distractions. ben does get more leeway, he's the face of the franchise, and this is completely out of character for him. joe knows this is an extremely isolated incident. we're not talking about stephen jackson here.
     
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I've read some of the opinions about Ben having to make up for his mistake and the analogies to employees and the workplace.

    Anyone who has worked with skilled labour in a talent driven industry knows that you cannot deal with everyone with one set of blanket rules that apply unilaterally. Exceptions used with discretion can turn a bad situation into a winning one.

    Each case is unique, the tenure and value of the employee has to be taken into account. Yep, I am saying that not everyone is equal or should be treated equally. Life's like that. Unfair.

    Publicly embarassing Ben into an apology or making what is for the most part a "showbiz" move like fining him only serves to create ill will.

    Like it or not, Ben is the Detroit Pistons. And like it or not, he is a valuable marketing asset, a true franchise player. These things get dealt with behind closed doors. A public display only embarasses Ben. It accomplishes nothing positive. Does anyone think that Ben will be a better player for having been fined? Or that it will make his negotiations go smoother if the team demands he make a public apology?

    At what point is it ok to isolate yourself from the man? The first time he stumbles? Are we truly that fickle?

    This isn't a dog we are talking about when you hit him with a newspaper or rub his nose in his own crap. It's a human being. One with a lot of pride. I'm willing to bet that the organization (and Flip) built a lot of goodwill with Ben by not caving into the mob mentality of the pundits and fans.

    Btw, if Ben apologizes his message gets watered down. Onward and upward.
     
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I would really consider kissing big ben's azz until we extend his contract for BELOW MARKET VALUE. So what if Flip's authority gets challenged. It's not like we are the Trailblazers.
     

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