Ben Wallace/Chicago Bulls '06/'07

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Pwn Toney, Oct 11, 2006.

  1. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    Gotta side with Darth Low on this one. Ben Wallace should have retired a Piston. Period.

    Flip Saunders is a tool. No chance we win the title with him... not this year, not ever.

    The rule change excuse is simply that. It's not a well reasoned argument. Defense and stops win. Flip's system killed us last year against Miami when we went cold. We did not have those troubles when we went cold with LB at the helm. We still could gut out wins on D alone. Not happening with Flip. Not ever.

    I'm going to love this season for many reasons, but I can't say it's because I expect us to be in a Parade next summer.

    Reasons- JMax, Us vs. Chi-Town, emergence of a bench, what happens with Billups, will Joe make a Big time trade?, and last but not least---watching Flip Saunders twitch and grind his jaw and tell us why it's OK when the starters are missing everything and playing lazy (just kidding, this one drives me batty)
  2. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    You'd be at an all-time low two if you were playing an avg of 15 min. per game in the preseason. You will see, trust me.
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    I know a lot of what a defenesive orientated player like Ben does will not show up on the stat line. Like I wrote I have not seen the Bulls play yet but in scanning the Bulls stats and quickly estimating them out to regular mins it seems like his stats are down. I know its the pre-season but I would imagine that he would be going near 100% given that he has something to prove in front of his new team and fans.

    I did read an article where Skiles said that he is getting what he expected from Ben so far ( setting screens, defensive plays, etc.. ) but the question is was last season a fluke or is Ben slowing down. Will they get any of his 10+ block games that we used to get. Can he dominate games like he used to. In other words is he worth 15mil/yr.

    On J-Max. I can see Flip just inserting Mohammed as our starting C and going with him, Dyess and Sheed. Based on last season this is probably what I should be expecting but Dumars has been quoted ( I posted in another post ) that he wants J to play. He has had a great pre-season overall and thats better than having a bad one which is some reason to hope.
  4. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    I get where you're coming from, but what you are seeing in the stats A)cannot be drawn out into 48 min. Because 48 min stat (especially on detnews) have proven to be useless. and B) Skiles is pretty much giving Ben some run to keep the blood pumping, but is really kind of letting him take it easy until the real deal starts. Having said that, after watching his games, he is just as effective with CHI as he was prior to Flip's arrival. I don't expect any drop off in his performance.

    As far as the pay goes, if Sheed is worth 11 Mil (and no one gripes about his salary) with all of his Techs and the 3 ptrs that everybody complains about, then you have to honestly entertain whether Ben is at least worth that much seeing what he has done for the franchise as opposed to what Sheed has done for the franchise as a whole. Besides, I never believed we needed to pay Ben 15 Mil. If Davidson was already prepared to give him 12, why not meet him in the middle and cost yourself a measily 1 Mil, pay him 13, and agree to have at least some modest attention to defense this year?

    I seriously think he would have stayed for 13 and it hardly would have ruined our chances with any other FA considering they were already prepared to hand out 12 Mil. The reason he got 60 right off the top is because that's what CHI came to the table with. There wasn't this Pistons nickle and dime play to start with 11.6, like the Pistons did, and whittle it up to 12 Mil. Ben Wallace has been pretty straight forward with the front office and they should have known better than to pull that "start low / negotiate up to what we're "really" willing to pay" strategy.

    That little game and Flip's insistance on only focusing on the strengths of his "offensive" players is what cost the Pistons Ben Wallace.
  5. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    It ultimately comes back to Joe. He knew what he was bringing in. He knew what he was keeping. He Let Ben go. I think it was in order to take advantages of his coaches strengths.
  6. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    Now there's a vision... Brahma going in for a power slam and the only one standing in the way is Ben... whew must see TV.
  7. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    A power Slam??

    Ben would let him go........
  8. max

    max All-Star

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    Low - would you be willing to entertain the idea that this goes a little beyond Flip. That there could have been a greater issue or issues at stake like not calling out the coach in the middle of the playoffs or not being a team player.

    I don't know what went on but it did not seem like either side was interested in continuing Bens employment here. That Dumars offer was more of a mock attempt for the media. Don't think he ever expected Ben to actually take it.

    Maybe someone will write a book someday and let us know what was really going on because its not as simple as money or Flips style. Perhaps he was stomping around on the practice floor with golf spikes on for all I know.

    Low stats and hustle plays was never a way to describe Ben in the past. Thats what we used to say about Curry.
  9. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    Sorry to but-in, but my response to that question is 'No'. The team was extremely cohesive before Flip got here...even through all of the LB ruckus. Did any player ever criticize LB through all that stuff?...not a soul...some may have had differences with LB, but all the players respected him for his coaching. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for Flip.

    For all we know, Flip was flicking boogers at Ben from under the rim during FT practice. I'd love to see that book...who's gonna write it? I know it won't be Flip, unless he grows some kohonees.
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    We don't need to play the blame game... Ben got an outrageous offer and it was too steep for ownership... good or bad decision... we haven't seen the results yet.
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    The Bulls could be good this year.

    Tonight against the Raptors (the only NBA that is actually trying to win games in the preseason), Ben had 11 rebounds and the other Ben had 38 points. Now that is going to be a fun combination.

    Hinrich, Wallace, Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Duhon, Tyrus Thomas, and a few other interesting prospects... not too shabby. They are not going to be fun to play against. :wedgie:
  12. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    Well, I hope that Ben and the rest of the Bulls get off to a bad start in Florida. :gun1: :gun1:!!!
  13. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    Thanks for reminding me. I don't want to miss the Bulls/Magic games!
  14. easybuckets

    easybuckets First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    I read the Ben Wallace interview in the new issue of Slam. Ben claims he started thinking about leaving during the last game of the Heat playoffs, when He was benched. When asked whether it was hard leaving Detroit, he mentioned nothing about missing the fans or his teammates. He left no doubt in my mind that he cares anything about his time with the Pistons and only that he is now happy to be able to play at both ends of the floor. He said coming here to play in February would be no big deal. His attitude is a huge disappointment to me as the fans and his teammates we were so supportive of him. I hope everyone in this forum gets a chance to read the interview.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    Before everyone runs in here with the regular Ben/Darko rhetoric, I think fans place too much emphasis on loyalty.

    I mean, the guy played here and was underpaid for years, even willing to give up renegotiating to keep the team competitive and people want to continue to attack him for loyalty.

    In a show me the money league, the Pistons made a sad face and pulled their pants pockets inside out. That isn't Ben's fault.
  16. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    Again, I think you're reading to much into this. Let it go, it'll allow you to sleep better. Chicago offered more money and Detroit didn't really want him here any more. So he left.
  17. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    Just like to say that I called it. I knew watching that game that it was over between the Pistons and Ben. Probably the most dissapointing 12 minutes of basketball I have watched in the last 5 years.
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    Lets also not turn this into ( it already has ) into a the Pistons are the cheapest team in the league deal. Remember how Bens new team treated Pippen. Pippens agent negotiated one of the crappiest deals of all-time and the Bulls never renegotiated. I think he made something like 3 mil in his final season and had to sit there watch guys like Rodman get 10mil+/season.

    if Ben really wanted to stay then he would have countered with something like would guys bump it up to 13.5/season or give me a longer deal. Dumars could have retained him for say a 5-6/yr deal with backroom assurances that he would also be given some overpayed part time gig when he retired. Something could have been done.

    Neither side seemed interested and truthfully I don't believe that we know the real reasons.
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    I'm not trying to paint the Pistons as cheap, although there is certainly a lot of evidence towards that conclusion.

    I'm saying that loyalty is a two way street, and I agree with you that neither side seemed interested in continuing the relationship.
  20. max

    max All-Star

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    Re: Big Ben's Debut

    The only time money factored in was with Ben. We have just been hashing it over for so long that it seems like its more. And was that really all just about money?

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