Ben Wallace upset

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Buckeyes#1, May 27, 2009.

  1. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    People who are down to their last dime aren't buying tickets to the Palace to see Pistons games. They are struggling to eat.
  2. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    You can "percieve" a Big Mac to be a Fillet of Fish...doesn't make it true.

    A. Funny how loyalty only only applies to players and never GM's and owners. To me it's naive to get upset with a guy for making a decision that he's well within his rights to make for perfectly legitimate reasons. Just because there's some magic standard of loyalty doesn't mean you'll sucker up, stay, and do everything you believe to be against what you think is right for the team and your career...just because some imaginary goodie goodie status can be applied to you. If you don't care about you, no one else will.

    B. Keep in mind, I DO have the ability to respond to someone's post and not be directing everything said at the person I quoted. I just means the post spurred a response. I'll try to be clear so as not tweak you in the future. But, just as you said...
    ...disagreeing with someone's (or your) opinion is just that. It doesn't mean I'm crying. It means I don't agree with you or anyone else I choose to respond to on the matter and just like you, I get to say what I want on the matter. Don't like it?
  3. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think it does apply to GMs and owners to some extent. You do right by your players and it has an effect on your reputation. On the other hand, as you have often said Low, Ben's best career move would have been to stay in Detroit. Flip was going that wouldn't have been an issue. Ben sacrified career goals to grab some cash. If that's fine with you...OK..but that's the bottom line. Ben reaped what he sowed.
  4. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I'm simply stating that fans felt he left for more money. Where you get the McDonald's tie in I'm not sure.

    I wasn't aware that 11.5 million a year was now considered "suckering up".
  5. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Amen...
  6. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    Agree fully that he reaped what he sowed. His career faded very quickly -- almost meteorically -- after he left Detroit. I think he left both for money and because of disagreements with the way he was being used offensively by Flip. In retrospect, those disagreements with Flip seem to have been blown way out of proportion by Ben. If he felt his role in the offense was diminished under Flip, that problem only got progressively worse in Chicago and now in Cleveland. In other words, if he felt dissed in Detroit, and if (as is likely) this feeling affected his overall game, then that feeling would only have grown in Chicago and Cleveland. Still a sad situation to see an athlete who played at such a high level from 02 to 06 reduced to near insignificance in three years time.
  7. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Sorry, I'm speaking from personal experience. I've spent the last dollars of a paycheck to go to a Pistons game. It happens. I'm not talking about a weekly thing like choosing between groceries or a Pistons game. Come on.
  8. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    How does someone expect to be more a part of the offense with their only offensive skill being a put back? No jump shot, horrible at the FT line.........how "involved" can you be? Ben was a tremendous defensive star but on offense, he hurt the team (unless he was tipping one in or getting offensive boards).
  9. Blue

    Blue First Round Draft Pick

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    I don't think Ben wanted to be featured more on offense under Flip... I think he wanted to be more part of the team under Flip. The guy benched him during the 4th quarter of an elimination game. It was becoming clear towards the end of that season that Flip just couldn't really figure out how to feature Ben Wallace in his basketball system (on offense or defense).

    Think about this if your Ben. The year before you were coached by LB. This guy built an entire system that focused on defense, turning defense into offense, and playing tough. You completely thrived in your role, dominating on defense; especially the helpside variety, blocking shots that turned into fastbreaks and such. Management cans LB and brings in Flip, who's doing a fancy 200 page motion offense and playing zone D. Management seemingly endorsed these changes. The season culminates with you getting benched in the ECF for better jumpshooting by Dyess.

    In the off-season, not only is management not going to change back to the role that you thrived in, but another team comes in and offers you more money and has a coach that you believe values similar things to Larry.

    I remember being very upset with Ben and betrayed when he left, but looking at the situation without all of the emotions invovled, it seems so incredibly reasonable that he would leave.

    It didn't really work out for both sides, but you can't predict the future.
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Straight business. Cleveland benefits from his early retirement. It would make sense to pay him off to recoup cap room. The way these contracts are structured you can't necessarily look at it as year to year deal.

    Criticizing Ben for his buyout would be no different than criticizing Dice for taking a buyout from Denver in order to re-sign with Detroit.
  11. Blue

    Blue First Round Draft Pick

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    Personally I'm all for any franchise that the Pistons compete with having to spend their revenue to buy out a high priced player.
  12. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Taking a buyout is not what I'm criticizing. I am critisizing his statement that he "deserves" a buyout as if it's something he's entitled to. If he wants to retire that's one thing but to act like Cleveland owes this to him is another.
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Buying out an overpriced player is to their advantage. Ideally you want them (foes) to keep the boat anchors on their roster at full price.

    Buyouts allow them to clear cap space and minutes, without having to take the full hit.

    That is why Cleveland will buy out Ben. It is in their best interest, and Ben knows it. Just smart business, sorta like LB nailing the Pistons for compensation when they let him go.

    Bill Davidson wouldn't give LB a raise, but he got it anyway. Sometimes we have to be smart enough to know when to say when, and take our lumps.
  14. max

    max All-Star

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    I would not feel sorry for the Cavs. That final year, bought out or not, is going to be very valuable in a trade. Unless they want to hang onto it like a chuck of gold - like Dumars did.
  15. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Exactly. Nobody cares about the buyout...it was Ben's feeling that he had done something to deserve it. That is the whole point.
  16. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    No worries. In that context, I understand. Usually when I read comments like that I get the impression that vast swathes of people's kids are starving to death because their parents felt a sense of civic duty to support the local NBA franchise. :MusicBigGrin:
  17. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    He was not winning in comparison to....who?

    Not many.
  18. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Unless there is a $5 bill underneath the big mac and a $100 under the filet of fish.

    We both know Ben's marketing power took a gigantic nosedive after he left the D.

    "Fear the Fro" and the "NFZ" have all but went the way of the Dodo.
  19. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I know whenever I used to read Bull's blog (blogabull) they referred to Big Ben as "the corpse of Ben Wallace". He was hated there almost equal to how much he was loved here.
  20. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    True. He wasn't going to be happy under Flip which was the key factor for him. He did what he had to do. I totally see your point here. At the same time I completely agree that right now he is getting overpaid on a team that could use the flexibility to get something that they didn't have last round.

    Would he be different on the Pistons right now? Possibly, Yet I will always maintain that as a 6'6" PF/C he is the big mans equivalent of a "slasher". He made his legacy on hard work and his athleticism, and one of those attributes was on the decline before he ever quit wearing a Pistons uni.

    Couple this with the fact that he has refused to have surgery on certain parts of his body for years and years, and his decline wasn't speculation, it was an undeniable fact.

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