Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Menace, Apr 3, 2009.
No one should get a free pass this year.
at least coach and players alike have confessed that they have underachieved; something what did not happen during flip era. It has been a long way back to earth.
What good team (which DET is far from being) does have an offense where AI fits?
I think almost every team is a better fit than Detroit. For starters, a couple of spot-up shooters would complement his game.
Do you really believe the Denver Nuggets with AI is a better team than Detroit with AI? Keeping the AI variable the same, they were a lot more successful with AI, and they were a lot more successful on offense.
So to make AI the errant variable based on the Detroit experiment seems a little :( to me.
Yes they were, but that came with a price. To be successful with AI they had he and Melo take turns on offense in place of developing any continuity on offense. This works until you go up against good teams who want you to dribble into their defense.
The notion that the Nuggets were the upstart little engine that could doesn't really fit. At the time the trade for AI was made and at the start of their first playoff run together it was thought you had a very good team who with 2 star players who many expected to beat SA in their opening series.
And what price have we paid?
The price we paid is where we are at now. I think it is important to look at what there was to gain by seeing if AI could blend his scoring ability into a playoff type offense versus he and Rip simply taking turns each trip down the floor.
Which is worse off than Denver, albeit with some of the cap room they would have had if they had kept AI AND had another 50 win season.
You obviously need a certain group of players to build around Iverson for it to work, even in his prime. You need to surround him with great defenders and guys that don't mind Iverson chucking up 25-30 shots a night. I don't think you are going to find many guys that will buy into the second part anymore, not at this stage of his career.
And just a little food for thought.
Career Record: 456-430 = 51.3%
Postseason Record: 28-40 (lost 12 of his last 13 postseason games)
Iverson has played 13 seasons in the NBA... and his career record is only 26 games above .500. And he's 12 games below .500 in the postseason.
I'm not trying to rip on the guy, but it's clear that there aren't that many guys that "fit" his style of play. And keep in mind that the eastern conference was pretty weak in the prime of his career, but he was only able to take 1 team to the finals. And that team happened to be an excellent defensive team that didn't care if Iverson took (approx.) 28% of their total shots.
2000-01 Philadelphia 76ers Roster and Statistics - Basketball-Reference.com
So what team caters to his style today? I can't think of any contender that does. I think Iverson will need to change his style before he finds a team that will change their game to cater to his game. It'd be one thing if he had won championship(s) playing his style of play... but he hasn't.
Again, I don't think it's the fact that AI takes 25-30 shots that is the problem. It's that he wants to dominate the ball and take those shots that does it.
If AI could use his speed defensively and if he could have been more decisive offensively I don't think the team would have had any problems with him taking 25 shots a game. He would be starting then. He would have another contract here and Rip would have been moved to address areas of needs if someone would take his contract (a big if now).
The thought that the team banded together to freeze him out because they missed Chauncey is ridiculous. This same soap opera mentality is also the reason we get to listen to LeBron's 5 favorite colors every time he plays along with his contrived wit being shoved down our throats.
Avatar changer! Is it possible Dumars made the trade with hopes of a greater payoff if things worked out rather than another Flip Saunders season of deceptive wins?
I'm not sure what your point is about DEN this year. Who knows where they could be if they kept AI?
Denver won 50 games in a soft West last year. They were fighting Golden State for the last spot in the playoffs and won 2 games more than them. I don't hear anyone calling the GSW a great team either.
But I thought you believe AI is a blackhole, a lazy worthless defender and totally unable to mesh with a disciplined offense or make his teammates better.
So do you think Joe was wrong for not knowing this, or did you also share his optimism at one time?
Where are you getting this AI shooting 25-30 times a game from?? Both seasons in Denver AI shot 19 times a game. AI doesn't shoot anymore than all of the great scorers in league. Sorry you can't average 25ppg on 14 shots lol.
That whole AI has never won argument to me is flawed, because in order to win as a great player you have to have talent around you. Ai didn't have that. Find me one team that AI was on in philly that by looking at their roster underachieved? Your knocking AI because he wasn't able to CARRY any other philly team to the finals??
Well it could also be said that great players elevate their team and make their teammates better. Kobe took a team with Smush Parker, Kwame and Luke Walton as starters to the first round and nearly upset the 54 win Phoenix Suns in round one. He made his teammates better and elevated their level of play. KG took a team of tomato cans to the playoffs consistently in Minnesota. When he was finally surrounded by talent in Boston, he won a championship.
I absolutely shared the optimism at the start. I totally bought the AI was hampered by lousy teams argument. I no longer do.
I would love to hear Joe D explain how he thought this was going to play out and what position he was going to play.
Damn you and your avatar switching self! I thought I was replying to Detteam the whole time and you never answered me.
You're alright Ernie. My fav slow adult.
Others would say Kobe was a failure because he couldn't get out of the first round, irregardless. Sometimes people just refuse to give a guy some credit.
In your previous post you bashed AI because he had a bad playoff record, and now you want to give Kobe & KG credit for their 1st round exits?? How's that any different then when AI lead his sixer teams to their 1st and 2nd round exits??
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