Better without Rip Hamilton?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Nov 2, 2007.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The question has to be asked...

    Discuss!
  2. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    Let's not get ahead of ourselves with crazy talk. Remember last season when the Pistons stomped the Suns in Phoenix when CB was hurt, with Flip Jr. going nuts and outproducing Nash in that game? I don't think that suggested a brighter future for the Pistons with Flip Jr. replacing CB full time.

    But hopefully everyone, both players and coaches, will gain some confidence from these two games about the team's ability to play through injuries or absences. That could definitely have some value.
  3. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I think that playing without one of our "big four" makes Flip a better coach. It forces him to play guys that he normally wouldn't and go deeper into his bench.

    Maybe one (or hopefully more) of those players will take advantage of the extra minutes and really impress Coach Twitch, a find themselves a spot in the regular rotation.

    That would make this team better. So yes, in a very round about way, this team is better without Rip, CB, Sheed or Tay (for a very short amount of time).
  4. webz

    webz All-Star Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I guess when we are missing one of the main pieces of the team, it forces the rest to be more focussed because they have to make up for the loss, rather than being in 'cruise mode' with the same squad.

    When Rip comes back and its the same 5 we'll probably lose and blame it on Rip. :rolleyes:
  5. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Great point webz.
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Just think how much better we'd be if Chauncey and Sheed sat out too!
  7. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    First of all these are only two games.
    Second, no team is better off without one of their main scorers.
    Third, Rip would relieve minutes from Chauncey and Tay.
  8. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I love "seeing" (if you can call reading recaps and PF posts "seeing") our bench get developed. So I am very happy to see Rip out a few games. Of course, I love Rip and what he brings, but it is just awesome to see the younger guys getting playing time, and just eating it up. Chauncey described the bench as hungry. Watch out C-Bill! They will eat you for breakfast if you don't stay hungry yourself! :MusicBigGrin:
  9. adonis

    adonis First Round Draft Pick

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    We are not better without Rip. Rip is a lot of energy that gives the team the take off at the begining of the games. I am worried if Tay's role will be less when Rip comes back.
  10. Taco John

    Taco John First Round Draft Pick

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    Yeah, we'd be better without Rip...if he's sent to LA for Kobe.
  11. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I would say Kobe is kind of like a sword with it's cross guard.
  12. DirtyMoney

    DirtyMoney First Round Draft Pick

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    I will say that whenever we missed one of the starters last year, we really missed him. I don't know of it is folks getting excited to play and fighting for position or if guys got better. I am speaking mostly about Flip, Jr. We all know that usually Prince does not get that many plays called for him. We all know that he can stand out, but he does whatever he has to to make the team better. We have players that would be standouts on other teams...we know that much. Last, but not least, it is the beginning of the season. The team has not played much with Rip anyways, s htey may not be used to his presence as of yet.
  13. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    The starters on offense are. The Pistons don't depend on Rip to always be the first option. Hopefully when he returns things change from the past few seasons. Sometimes Rip needs to be the fourth option on the play. Sheed, Tay, and Chauncey can score too. This team is very balanced, so the play calling should be balanced too.
  14. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    This thread is a redo of the one about "Better Without Billups" when C-Bill went down last year and Flip had one excellent game then reverted to his normal self.

    Rip ain't Wally Pipp and Flip ain't Lou Gehrig so forget about it.

    After Hot Rod starts playing it wouldn't surprise me to see Murray become the 5th guard behind both Hot Rod and AA.

    :hoops:
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I don't think so. I provided the question as a talking point, not because I had a fully formed opinion yet.

    It's ok to question if we need Rip, or if he might be a valuable trade piece. Without Rip playing 36+ minutes, we've seen a lot of great early depth, and a much more diversified attack.

    Maybe it's not sustainable. Maybe it is.
  16. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    I didn't say it wasn't okay to talk about the subject. Please don't put words into my posts.

    I just said that this was the same basic theme of the thread that we had last year that asked if C-Bill should be replaced by Murray when C-Bill got hurt and Murray had one very good game while C-Bill was out.

    Then I gave my opinion on the the question raised that the idea, not the discussion of it, but the actual implementation of it, won't happen.

    Sorry if my post was not clear.
    :hoops:
  17. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i think the question turns more than anything on the players capacity to learn, psychologically and physically, from rip's absence and to incorporate those lessons (balance, adaptability, checking off options) upon his return (which is, i think, what most of you are saying anyway).

    there might be some teams that are better off without their leading scorer (because that player is selfish), but I don't think the pistons really are one of them.

    i do think that saunders, rip, and the rest of the pistons should really take to heart what the last two games have shown (albeit against mediocre teams): that a lot of pistons can produce offensively and its self-reinforcing feedback loop when this is recognized (i.e. the more each player plays with an awareness that a lot of players can produce the more a lot of players produce and the more a lot of players produce the more likely that each player will be aware of that and play with that awareness, etc.).

    if they do, then i can easily imagine a scenario where the pistons have not 4 and occasionally 5 players in double figures, but maybe 7 or 8 (though not necessarily always the same 7 or 8) in double figures. That makes for a very dangerous team: not only because it's impossible to key on one player, but because it fosters the kind of team chemistry and mutual confidence that makes teams very hard to beat in pressure situations.

    so let's get rip back in there and see how the pistons respond to the test/opportunity that his return provides to learn and incorporate these newly discovered facets to the full (minus amir and stuckey) roster.
  18. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Agreed. Thankfully Rip is expected back soon and it isn't an injury that we have to worry about healing or re-injuring.

    From a talent standpoint I agree. From a development and "seeing what we have" standpoint - especially at the beginning of the season when the games are the least important - I disagree. This time can be extremely valuable to the team, the players and the coach.

    Rip, CB and Tay already play almost the entire game. We need our bench to step up and our coach to give them a chance. So far, Flip has proven that suspensions, injuries and unavailables from his starters are the only ways that the middle to end of the bench can get any PT and development in the games.
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Likewise my fellow Austrian Economist.
  20. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm sorry too. :grouphug:

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