Better without Rip Hamilton?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Nov 2, 2007.

  1. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Just to stir the pot a bit.

    On the other hand if Dyess were to miss a few games (He now has I believe the 2nd or 4th longest games played streak in the NBA, which is truly amazing given his injury history before he joined us) and AJ were to start in his place, then in my opinion that would be something to think about on a going forward basis even after Dyess returned.

    Right now though if Dyess were to miss a few games I think Maxey would start in his place and not AJ.

    That also would be an interesting discussion, not that his one about Rip and Murrie isn't.

    :hoops:
     
  2. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Better without Rip? Not a chance. We happen to get lucky to start the season against two seriously flawed teams. Miami is a step above the NBDL without Wade. Shaq is getting no help, even the refs have abandoned him.

    Orlando is not a bad team, but without Battie and Darko, they have no Front court, and JMax eats bad centers for breakfast. Any team playing Pat Garrity and Adonal Foyal has some serious issues.

    Once we start playing some balanced teams, and thankfully, those teams are few and far in between, the value of Rip will be immensely clear.
     
  3. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    :cheerlie-GOAL::p_welldone:

    :hoops:
     
  4. max

    max All-Star

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    To me it seems the Pistons are off to sort of an emotional start. All the guys have come out to play. A lot of that is probably due to Rip being out. A lot of teams can actually do better for short stretches with the main scorer out when they know they will have to step up.

    Who do you want taking those mid-range J's throughout the course of an 82 game season? That is the question.
     
  5. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i also think it's from what joe's done over the summer. instead of veteran's on the bench, we've got youngsters and guys with something to prove. they're not only pushing the starters in practice, but they're maintaining that energy level in the games, and it's rubbing off on everyone else.

    hayes is not only playing for a contract next year, but trying to prove to the rest of the NBA that it was a mistake to let him go, and a mistake to not sign him to a nice contract this off-season. flip lost 15 pounds and is trying to prove he can still be a part of the rotation. stuckey is trying to prove that just because he went to a small college doesn't mean he can't play in the nba. afflalo is trying to prove he shouldn't be cast aside just because stuckey was picked 12 spots ahead of him. nazr is trying to prove he can be a part of this team.

    overall, we're hungry again, and you've got to give a lot of that credit to joe for putting this team together. yeah it's only 2 games into the season, but i don't see the hunger going away.
     
  6. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Good points.

    I might add

    Maxey will be trying to prove that he can get defensive rebounds in abundant enough numbers to satisfy Pistons management and teammates.

    AJ will be trying to prove, if given the opportunity, that yes he can indeed stuff one or more of Durant's shots.

    :hoops:
     
  7. max

    max All-Star

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    Spot on!

    And thats something that we have not had in a while.
     
  8. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think I'd at least like them to try having Rip come off the bench when he returns. I think going to Rip at the start of these games makes CB & Tay kind of stand around before they try and get going. Conversely, maybe Rip's disciplined style of offensive play can give focus the 2nd units O and make it easier for CB and Tay to come out at normal intervals. Sometimes you back into success.
     
  9. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Would never happen, but I've always been interested in the idea of bringing one of the main guys (Rip or Tay most likely) off the bench, to add a legitimate leader/scorer for the bench unit. It would spread things out a bit better. I mean, are there really enough shots to go around with Chauncey, Rip, Prince, Sheed, and Dice out there at once? Not really. That's why you start Afflalo and Max in place of Rip and Dice. Two guys that don't need plays called for them to be effective. That helps Chauncey, Prince, and Sheed get more attempts, so they don't get lost in the shuffle, while Max/Afflalo get their clean-up points and play tough D.

    Then the bench comes in with Rip leading the way, where he'll be fresh and ready to carry the scoring load for the 2nd unit.

    Obviously Rip would still play starter minutes, and in late game situations, but it would just reposition those minutes a bit during the rest of the game.

    It's pretty pointless to discuss though, because Flip would absolutely never go for that, and it wouldn't be fair to Rip to pull the switch on him now. We would have to be terrible for a good 10-15 games once he comes back in order for this kind of thing to be even considered.

    Could you imagine Stuckey, Rip, Flip, Hayes, Dice, and Amir coming off the bench? That's a lot of fire power.
     
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    What I think is, very good teams have big scoring threats on the bench. We tried it last year with Flip and Dice, and it didn't work. McDyess is a 10/8 player of the bench. It's what he is. Like a super role player, not a bench leader.

    If you look at Dallas last year, they had 3 scorers in the startinglineup and 2 role players. This year, they put Jason Terry on the bench, a very good scoring point guard, in favor of Devin Harris who is mostly known as a defender.

    When we won the title in 2004, we had 2 role/defense players in Ben and Tayshaun. Corliss was just recently a 6th man, Lindsey still had a little gas in the tank, and Mike James was a hyper aggressive (both ends) bulldog.

    Perhaps it's not about Rip, but having less scorers in the starting lineup actually spreads the attack throughout the game. Most teams have a primary, a secondary and a tertiary go to guy. With the way Tay has played in this shortened lineup, I have to ask myself, is he ready for the next step (that I would have argued was impossible 6 months ago) and if so, is the holdback opportunity?

    Another good example are the Spurs. They have 3 scorers starting and two role players supporting them. There is something to this model, heck it might be way the 2004 Lakers failed.

    Too many chefs, not enough dishwashers.
     
  11. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree with the slow guy named Ernie, that bringing Rip back slowly by having him come off the bench would be a nice move just to give the bench that extra scoring punch that we usually lack midway thru the second. He would be our answer to the Spurs Genobli, and who knows Rip finally wins an individual award>>>>Sixth man of the year. :winner_first_h4h:
     
  12. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    If we do that Flip would probably continue to start AA, which would be good for speeding up his NBA level development.

    :hoops:
     
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Aside from getting AA some consistent burn, Flip isn't going to sit Rip if he misses a few shots.
     
  14. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    I am hearing this discussion about a scorer coming off the bench and I believe we have someone, Jarvis Hayes. I know he hasn`t shown that burst as of yet, however, we are only 2 games in the season.


    Thus far he has shown a lot of hustle resulting in rebounds and steals. Hayes along with Sheed is shooting 50% from the arc, and at about 25 MPG in the first two games, Hayes is the Pistons 3rd leading rebounder.

    IMHO, Hayes will be that scorer off the bench that we need so desperately. I would like another scorer off the bench!! I guess that might be asking for too much though.....
     
  15. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Hot Rod because what he does best other than competing is scoring and he does an excellent job of it.

    When he returns it will like Mr outside, Hayes shooting them rainbow jump shots, and Hot Rod driving to rack and getting and "an one" or two shots, plus hitting an occasional jumper.

    :hoops:
     
  16. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    I am feeling that.

    If that could happen and the starters keep playing with the desire they are now, we could possibly win it all!!!!!
     
  17. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Even with Flip as the coach or do you know something that we don't?

    :hoops:
     
  18. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Rip has well-developed synergy with Chauncey, Tay, and Sheed. He's the most effective playing with these guys, because they know when and where to look for him. That's why the curls are so effective.
     
  19. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Yeah the three scorer Model is very solid. We actually run that model unknowingy, because 2 of our scorers become role players (Tay and Sheed). Maybe moving Rip out of the starting lineup gives Tay/Sheed/Billups the chance to be more aggressive from the start of the game. But since we are in hypothetical land, if you think about it...ideally...we can do that with a first and second unit and almost seem impossible to start. We could start Billups, AA, Tay, Sheed, and JMax. We could then bring off the bench Stuck/Flip, Rip, Hayes, Dyess, AJ. Someone needs to put that Mad Scientist Dr.Lee on the job. See you in the rotation thread.
     
  20. max

    max All-Star

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    I agree that mixing things up when it gets stale is a good thing. Make the starters realize that its not given anymore. But Rip has not done anything wrong. It would be a demotion for whoever would be benched. Perhaps wait and bench the guy who starts mailing in games if it happends.

    Taking Rip out of the starting rotation because he missed 2 games to be with his wife during her delivery would seem very unfair.
     

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