Big Trouble in Little China?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Apr 8, 2006.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This isn't Ben Wallace behaviour.

    ** Link **

    You can listen to Flip's post game comments in this post of the game thread, http://www.pistonsforum.com/24529-post27.html

    What the heck is up with this? Ben pulling a Pippen? That's not his style. This is bad timing for guys to be pissed off. I'm not blaming Ben, just wondering if the Detroit sports media has the stones to report exactly why this happened...
  2. max

    max All-Star

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    Its also strange that this happened in the one game Rip missed. Perhaps they need that chemistry.

    It is un-Ben like and luckily we can at least count on the Oakland press to tell it the way it is.

    Lets see if we here more on this on tomorrows nationally televised game. See if we have a Pippen-gate situation or not.
  3. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    The twitching Flipper ain't Jax.
  4. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Any chance this has anything to do with Darko and/or Arroyo? I didn't see the game, so I'm just guessing. Maybe they didn't want to get shown up by DMC? Or they were protecting him?

    Whatever the reason, it all seems very fishy to me. Very un-Ben like. And for BOTH Wallaces to sit out crunch time is very perplexing?!?!?

    I hope we get more details soon....
  5. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I think Flip was just trying to avoid the injuries. Orlando was fired up, and they have a pretty athletic front court. Meaningless game, meaningless victory, and too much risk over "honor".
  6. max

    max All-Star

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    I don't think Arroyo or Darko were out there at the time.

    Its something else going on. Something with Flip and his players. He did bring Davis in earlier instead of Ben so perhaps thats what Ben was upset about. In any case its not good news that it effected the game.
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Well I read somewhere that Delk was supposed to start and he would not hence why Delfino got the nod despite coming off little recent PT.

    And then there was the Dice refusing to start when Sheed was late, and the suspension game.

    Makes me wonder if Flip is calling the shots or if there is some back door stuff going on. I know that 15 years ago, the players were quotable and wore their hearts on their sleeves. Nowadays, you are damn lucky if any Piston not named Sheed says something funny or critical.
  8. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    [​IMG]

    I love that movie. The Chang Sing hand signal should be how forum members identify one another.
  9. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    LanierFan, it's all in the reflexes. I own that movie. An early Kim Cattrall appearance was nice. :eyebrows:
  10. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    We won't get the true story. I do not see many negative stories about the pistons; but looking at flip during his press conference, i felt that he was ticked off; anyone else feel the same way;

    i feel this is cumulative; dice not wanting to start for sheed; delk not wanting to start for rip; i think flip feels his authority is being challenged not in a up front way; but backdoor. everyone can understand why a sub does not want to break his routine; but to openly defy a coach, i do not think that is a good trend
  11. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Maybe Flip shouda put his foot down the night the Stones hoisted 29 treys and we wouldn't be having this discussion. :(
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    Ben is an emotional guy. There have been incidents in past seasons when he was teed off about something. He would not have went that far under LB since he would have been suspended for a game.

    Bens emotions have helped way more than they have hurt. Challenging the team in past playoff series that we were behind in declaring we are not going to lose this series. I think most of the non-quite Piston attitude has been driven from Ben.

    On Flip. One of the knocks that we all knew about before he inked is he can be too soft on the players. It was discounted since the Pistons are a professional team and can police themselfs. I am 100% confident that Ben would not have pulled that during a crucial game - he is not Ron Artest.

    On the other guys perhaps its as innocent as politely requesting that they would rather stay on the bench to not lose their rythm so close to the playoffs.
  13. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    Not a big deal, IMHO. We've seen it before and it's why Ben is the real leader of the team rather than Chauncey.

    When the guys aren't bearing down AND Ben has a sub-par game, he starts heating up like a radiator and everybody gets the message. So what if he'd spent the previous night fighting a guy who outweighs him by 90 pounds? So what if there were regulars missing from the lineup? Ben's pride won't permit those excuses, but he's not going to hold a press conference on his feelings. Behind the scenes it's going to get a little uncomfortable for some folks, and that's not a bad thing.
  14. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    It is still unprofessional for Ben not to enter the game at the coaches request. He is one of the co-captains and sets the tone for the rest of the players. Whatever issue he has with Flip or their play should be dealt with in the locker room. I hope this is not the beginning of something.
  15. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    It's always hard to know how accurate the press is, but the article posted here from the Detroit News seems a good summary of what happened.

    Of the two claims there, I'm probably more concerned about the possibility that Sheed didn't come back in because of back spasms. He may have been in solidarity with Ben and just using that as an excuse, but if not, that could be a nagging thing that never quite goes away.

    Interesting speculation in the article that Ben's dreadful free throw shooting of late and the general early game malaise both contributed to his blow up. Hitting one of two is one thing, but connecting on one of five must be pretty hard to take, especially with playoffs looming and the possibility of needing key free throws. It's got to be weighing on the big man.
  16. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    I've said it for a long time...Flip does not control this team. Maybe he IS too soft and this tightly-knit highly self-motivated team does not respect him. Flip was the luckiest coach on the planet when he fell into his gig here. But, he may be viewed by the team as their red-haired stepchild.

    I have my opinion on what I have seen of Flip this year. Can anyone cite one good in-game coaching move that Flip has made over the course of the season?

    I don't agree with what Ben did, but I respect Ben FAR more than Flip...I'm sure Ben had his reasons. If the past is an indicator, Ben's protest will serve to pull his teammates closer together for the playoff run...and possibly force Flip into a locked closet while they do what they do best...play team ball and WIN.
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You make an excellent point. If the players thought they didn't need LB to win, then how would they need Flip any more than that? Joe keeps his rolodex full of coach contact information. It's a revolving door here.

    They have to start CARING at the beginnning of ball games. I would be pissed too if I got the hook when I was part of the comeback. I mean, Flip has mis-managed minutes much of the year, now all of a sudden he wants to compromise a second half comeback to sit his guys?

    I don't buy that Sheed had back spasms either. There were shots of him sitting on the bench yukking it up in the 4th.

    Imagine how mad Ben must have been, he never did this under Carlisle or LB. One can only wonder how loud and intense the halftime meetings were.
  18. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Two words, MO Evans

    This situation is nothing like Pippen's, Pippen felt it was beneath him to go in for garbage time, IMO, Ben is PO'd about the coach not doing his best to win the game, specifically his player subs.

    1st, Flip doesn't start Delk, because Delk don't want to. Delk is clearly the better 2 than Delfino, but Flip doesn't play him.

    2. Flip playing Evans as backup 3. WTF?

    3. And in the 3rd, lead cut to 5, Sheed taken out and Evans put in as the backup 3 for Tay. WTF?

    I'm not a coach, but the sub pattern should have been pretty simple, Delk starts, Evans subs Delk, Delfino subs Tay. But Flip started Delfino, had Delk sub Delfino, and Evans sub Tay. So you ended up with smallball crap lineups of Hunter, Delk, and Evans on the floor at the same time.

    I think that's what po'd Ben, he's busting his ass to win, while Flip is trying to figure out ways to get Evans PT, instead of just trying to win the game.
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Nice try 16, but Coach actually put Delfino ahead of Evans by starting him. Even though Evans has had more minutes, has more starting experience and has for most of the season been much more productive offensively.

    If there is anything Ben is pissed about regarding the kids, it's that Evans didn't get the start over Delfino who for the most part stunk it up out there. Even J-Max had a bigger impact on the game in what, 4 minutes?

    I seriously doubt Ben gets mad about the 8th man as much as we do. His anger was aimed higher up the pecking order.
  20. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Precisely...you said it in more direct terms than I did.

    Me either...and it shows how tight this team is. Rip was not there and Ben got yanked...and Sheed will always be Sheed...a guy that's loyal to his brothers-in-arms and is not afraid to make a statement.

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