Big Trouble in Little China?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Apr 8, 2006.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Matt at DBB has his report up.

    http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-04-09/trouble-in-paradise-ben-wallace-refused-to-play/

    I find it kinda interesting that he takes the Flip side (pun intended) and thinks Ben owes an apology.

    I say, no way Jose. You apologize and that backtracks on the message Ben was sending. Lest we forget, Ben wins games, not Flip.

    You can find my comment at the end of the post. Historical perspective comes in handy, even in the squeaky clean 21st century NBA.
     
  2. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    The team will work it out. Ben will make up for it today.
     
  3. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    You're forgetting that the Magic were on a big run when Ben was pulled in the 4th (8-0 to bring the Pistons down 9), and the Pistons got back into the game with a 15-2 run right when Dale came into the game for him. Obviously it was the right coaching move to make.
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    My point FP is that Ben wasn't "one game" mad. This is the pent up anger over the way this team has played for the last month in the first half of games.
     
  5. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Sorry, I should have taken out the part about the beginning of games. I was replying to the part where you said that he was part of the comeback, when in reality, the team made their big run right when Ben went to the bench, and were sliding prior to that. It's not like the team was playing great when he was pulled. The magic were on an 8-0 run.

    As for Ben being mad about the beginning of games... I don't think he has much room to criticize (which it sounds like what's going on). Ben has lacked energy during the first half of games on most nights this year. He has only brought that vintage Wallace energy to a handful of games.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think we place an unrealistic expectation for Ben alone to come out like bottled lightning every night. We don't expect that from Tay, Chauncey or Sheed. They all get their kudos down the stretch, but if the team comes out flat, it's a Ben energy problem.

    I dunno man. I'm anxious to see how today shakes out. A little drama breaks the monotony of waiting for the post season.
     
  7. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    The difference is that Ben's entire game is energy. Chauncey, Tayshaun, Rip, and Sheed can have a decent game without a ton of energy because they can shoot the ball and make plays on the offensive end. If Ben isn't "bottled lightning" grabbing those tough rebounds, blocking shots, getting deflections, extra possessions, and basically being a terror on defense, he isn't doing a whole lot to help the team. Lately he has just been a step slow to everything most of the game. Even the Magic commentators kept bringing up how slow Ben's defensive rotations were. And it's not just the Orlando game.
     
  8. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    All that needed to be said. The rest is just repressed fan boredom, given little excuse for venting during this .800 season and .858 stretch. Carry on without me.
     
  9. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Why shouldn't apologize for his behavior? He doesn't have to be sorry about what he felt but he should apologize to his coach for not responding when called. He is a highly compensated professional and is paid to play, it's not optional. You play for your team.

    Flip should have kicked him the arse and taken control as I am sure LB would have. Players don't pull this type of stunt under Parcells or Bowman. Got MOOCH?
     
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Ben got pissed at the coach and made a bad judgment....ZZZZzzzzz
    The 88-89 team made our current squad look link Monks...
    The only reason this got any ink was cause Mc-Lose-key overheard Ben saying some stuff.
    Of course the National media would love to run with it... the top dogs are always the target of the envious.

    How bout dat #1 team in the NBA and their useless coach...lol

    Oh yeah, teams full of Saints are on the bottom looking up.
     
  11. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Am I wrong to say, Flips coaching style is "score or sit down"?
    I'm not saying Flip doesn't love BBens game but without O touches maybe BBen feels left out. Unlike the Worm, BBen has always tried to be involved on O.
     
  12. Griffin

    Griffin First Round Draft Pick

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    Here's why Ben Wallace is our most valuable player:

    "Every time I step on the floor, there is no question why I am out there," he said. "I play to win. I don't want to settle for being a good team. I want to reach greatness. None of this was ever given to me. I had to work for everything I've got and I am going to continue to work.

    "I just want to help my team win and if I feel like I am not getting the opportunity to do that, I feel like I am cheating the team."
    Wallace took only five shots against the Pacers, but he had four assists and was very much involved at the offensive end. His lack of involvement in the offense -- nine shots in the three previous games combined -- had been one of the sources of his displeasure.

    "When we play like we did (Sunday), good things happen," he said. "We move the ball. We make the defense move and break down, and that allows you to get to the boards. When we were winning the championship, everybody was involved. Teams had to guard all five players. We didn't rely on just one or two guys."

    Sounds like Big Ben misses LB. Also, sounds like the same problem Ben had with Rick.

    I tend to agree with Ben, and I don't see what he has to apologize for. The Leader made his point. I hope Flip and the players take it to heart.
     
  13. Griffin

    Griffin First Round Draft Pick

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    Although, I wonder what Ben's talking about here? Does he mean Rip & Chauncey? I don't get it. I mean, the Piston attack seems pretty balanced most nights.
     
  14. max

    max All-Star

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    Griffen - that was the 1st time that I have actually missed LB. LB would not have tolerated that. Its over now. The team obviously played a lot better so lets hope the trend continues and none of that happends again.

    Ben may have even made a point about him being more involved in the offense. Although I do think Ben took too many shots for my taste last season. Remember that stretch we went through when Ben always had to take the 1st shot of the game and almost always missed?
     
  15. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I can't dissagree too much with how Flip is using Ben...
    He's not getting 12-15 touches like LB gave him but he does have some opportunities to make some plays on offense... if he converted more he'd likely get a couple more bones.
    Why is he fading on his mid range shots when they're playing off him?

    No excuse for the FT%... he should be able to develop a consistent routine... not buying the energy causing fatigue in his shots... Rip doesn't have that problem.

    I think it's alright to keep his minutes down in the 4th qtr... then he can come in and provide the energy needed in the last 6 minutes or so.
     
  16. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    people are making a bigger deal out of this than needs to be. lanier's original post is spot on - ben's an emotional guy and was having a very bad game, then took it as an insult when flip told him to sit down. i really think flip was just trying to get ben some rest for the final few minutes, as ben hadn't subbed out the entire 2nd half. he either took it as an insult to his playing ability, or was mad because he thought flip gave up at that point (the mentioned 8-0 run by orlando).

    ben made a bad call, but no need for apologies. like he said in his post game report, he doesn't think about it and is looking forward, and learned from his mistake.

    we're fine, and i think this was a good motivational kick in the ass, just in time for the playoffs.
     
  17. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    maybe Ben is never going to realize that his offense is crap and his most usefull if he sets picks, gets offensive boards and dunks.
    Obviously, the LB experiment to get him involved in the O failed.
    Ben should work on his game instead of complaining- just look at his free throws, he's a PRO!!!
    btw, what about Sheed? Why did he refuse too?
     
  18. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    How in the world could you say it failed? We won a title with that strategy and came within minutes of a second one. Are you serious?
     
  19. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Are you seriously saying that Ben's offensive involvement was one of the main reasons for the success of the last 2 season?
     
  20. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I don't think that Ben should EVER dribble the ball in the low post again. Its painful to watch and 9 times out of 10 results in either a T.O. or an air ball - both times Ben complains to the refs for a foul. Or the worst possible result... (wait for it)... free throws for Ben.

    I'm not against getting Ben involved in the O, but it should be with alley oops for a slam. By far Ben's highest percentage shot. Rip to Ben (and Rip to Tay for that matter) is almost indefensible. CB gets Ben some slams as well, and so has Sheed.

    Why not go to that more often? It keeps Ben happy, gets everyone involved on the offensive end and is almost a guarenteed 2 points (and sometimes 2 points, a foul and an air balled free throw). And most importantly, its much less painful to watch than seeing Ben try to back down his man for 18 seconds, dribble the ball off his foot out of bounds and then look to the ref for a foul.
     

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