Billups vs. Iverson

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by SmartIversonFan, Jan 26, 2009.

  1. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    True. I guess he never saw MJ play, or Tim Duncan.... or Kobe ( a few years ago).

    Being a great offensive player does not give you an excuse to be a poor defender.... plenty of great players did both.

    Iverson is somewhat limited defensively though due to him being so small, so I'm willing to cut him some slack in that regard. He still ball watches way too often.
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Birdman turned out pretty decent this year. Better than they were expecting I would guess.
  3. SmartIversonFan

    SmartIversonFan Second Round Draft Pick

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    ^ you are very wise and 100% correct.

    why can't we all respect both chauncey and AI?
  4. SmartIversonFan

    SmartIversonFan Second Round Draft Pick

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    chauncey shot under 40% for 6 seasons. he was not drawing double
    teams like AI. he had more options to pass the ball to than AI.
    also, he's taller than AI. chauncey is good at shooting when he has
    to stay still and take easy shots. hence, he's shoots high percentages
    from the line and from his in-transition 3 or a 3 with his feet set.

    allen iverson is a better shooter from the field. don't stereotype
    him because of his image. sorry, man.
  5. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    What puzzles me about the situation is that there are regularly games where Billups is shooting 10+ FT's, and doing it shooting 3-9, 6-13 or something similar to that. I haven't checked but i don't think his shooting % had risen dramatically and i don't even think he's taking more shots than he did here. He's putting up alot of his numbers at the FT line.

    It's like the twighlight zone. The one thing i expected AI to do consistenly is be able to get to the line. And now the few times he does get there, i'm just crossing my fingers that he makes them.
  6. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    How is he a better shooter from the field?? His percentage is less???

    AI isn't drawing double teams now.
    AI has more options to pass the ball to now.
    Can't blame CB for being taller; AI is quicker.
    AI could be taking easier shots but he fades on every jumper he takes; whether he needs to or not.

    If AI is so much more a better shooter, then his % should be through the roof right now. He has a more experienced Stuckey, Max and Tay is playing better then when CB played with them.

    Sorry but I don't think it has anything to do with sterotype or image. It is all about performance. :sssh:
  7. Jewelz0376

    Jewelz0376 First Round Draft Pick

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    Iverson is a better shooter off the dribble than a catch and shoot or stand still shooter...in Den he got more jumpshots of the dribble..in Det's offense he doesn't get as many shots off the dribble...

    It'd be like Rip going to another team and in their offense they had Rip create his own shots..his % would probably be a lot lower too..

    Trust me when your used to taking shots off the dribble your whole career and then you switch to catch and shot situations its a HUGE difference....just look at Kobe in the olympics...

    So like i said be4..AI better off the dribble...Billups better catch and shoot
  8. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I'm not "stereotyping" anyone. Chauncey is a more efficient shooter than AI, no matter how you try to spin it. That is a FACT. I don't care if AI had to take more difficult shots.

    AI has had a way better career than Billups, but lets not pretend that AI has ever been an efficient scorer. Billups wasn't either, but he is slightly better and he takes care of the rock as well as anyone.
  9. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Yeah, but it's not like AI is taking all (or even any for that matter) of his shots off of catch and shoots. AI is still creating his own shot.... he just isn't taking as many of them.
  10. SmartIversonFan

    SmartIversonFan Second Round Draft Pick

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    this season billups and AI are shooting the same 41.8%.
    in fact, if you wanna be technical, AI is shooting 41.9% after the
    results from his last game.


    Allen Iverson - Detroit Pistons - Game Log - NBA - Yahoo! Sports


    Chauncey Billups - Denver Nuggets - Career Statistics - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    every year, AI shoots better from the field.
    AI career % - 42.6%
    Billups career % - 41.6%

    AI career low: 38.7%
    Billups career low: 34.9%

    AI career high: 46.1% (also, 3 other seasons over 44%)
    Billups career high: 44.8% (also, no other seasons even reaching 43%)


    AI's career numbers, as i said before, were in situations that were
    usually double teams, against much taller and stronger defenders.

    if you wanna talk about this season, AI STILL draws double teams now.

    so AI is the better shooter (from the field, not from FT or 3-pt line),
    even when the conditions are adverse. there is no arguing it.
    people don't give him enough credit, but the numbers don't lie.
  11. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    FG% is not necessarily the best measure for determining who is a better shooter,especially when both players shoot a lot of three pointers.

    AI would have been a MUCH more efficient player if he cut out his three pointers from his game.... he's always been a well below average three point shooter.

    EFG% and points per shot are better measures for determining a more accurate %.

    And SmartIversonfan, its not like anyone here is trying to argue that Billups is an all time great shooter or anything... he's not. He takes his fair share of bad shots too. I always hated those transition pull up threes Billups took, even when he made them, because you should be able to get a higher % shot on a fastbreak.

    If you want to look at an efficient scorer and playmaker, look at Steve Nash.... or John Stockton before him.
  12. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Those are great stats but does not count all the shots. If there was no 3 point line or free throw line; AI is more effective at shooting.

    I am waiting for teams to just start fouling him to put him on the line.
  13. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    That's another reason why AI's overall shooting efficiency is down this year.... less free throw attempts. AI is averaging a career low in free throw attempts this year. I'm not sure why this is. I think it must be a combination of AI having lost a step and is not able to get all the way to the rim all the way.... and I don't think the refs have been as kind to him this year.

    I remember in year's past when the Pistons went against AI's Sixers in the playoffs and it seemed like he could get to the line virtually at will. Not the case anymore.
  14. SmartIversonFan

    SmartIversonFan Second Round Draft Pick

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    i'm not usually a pure statistics kind of guy.
    i'm the kind of fan that is more into the intangibles of
    the game. however, i can be very defensive of players, coaches, and teams that i support.

    AI is usually a tremendous player, statistically. his FG% and TOs are the
    only real knocks against him. he really only takes 3s when he's obligated
    to. in fantasy ball, he's been a 1st round pick every season (until now).

    efficient. better floor shooter. that's all i'm saying. the FTA thing is a
    direct result of his reduced role on the pistons. i think that's also why
    his TO are so low. when you handle the ball less, you draw less fouls
    and turn the ball over less. nash, for example, is very turnover prone.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's why the assist/turnover ratio is useful.

    I believe AI is still maintaining there, but I don't have the #'s.
  16. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I'm not disputing anything you just said, but wouldn't you agree that AI is not driving all the way to the rim as much this year for layups/fouls? He still gets to the paint/mid range area, but he's pulling up for a lot more jumpers this year.
  17. Pistons Lover

    Pistons Lover First Round Draft Pick

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    I wish the Iverson vs Billups thing would die. I mean like A.I. said, "I can do some things that Chauncey can't do and he does things that I can't do." They are too different players. One is a true point guard and the other is a scoring machine when he is hot. One has better defense and the other has a better way of creating things for himself. Just let it die already, plz!!
  18. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Iverson is not a better shooter. He takes closer shots. 1/3 of CB's shots are 3's. Also, you can't look at career avg, CB was in the proverbial Darko doghouse his first few seasons.

    Looking at the players now, AI is clearly on the downward spiral, similar to Zeke in his last season. Small guards like AI, take way too much damage over their careers, and when they go, they go fast.

    So I would definately take a CB with at least 4 good years left at 11 mil, over a 20 mil fading hall of famer, who's cap space isn't necessarily guaranteed to bring anything good in return.
  19. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    The degree of difficulty of Iverson's shots basically negates that theory. He takes more difficult shots than anyone in the League.

    On the other hand comparing CB with Darko was a low blow.
  20. Jewelz0376

    Jewelz0376 First Round Draft Pick

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    AI when he drives is looking to dish way more this year then any other year...and he does shoot alot of those freethrow line pulls but thats his shot though...he's always shot that...

    I think because AI obviously isn't as aggressive as past years he more cautious about when he drives...I think in years past if he drove and forced this issue and missed it wasn't as big of deal because he knew he was getting 20+ shots a game...but this year I think he doesn't want to waste possesions trying to force his way into the lane or force a foul call..which is why he isn't shooting as many free throws or getting as many pts in the paint. As much as the pistons say they want him to be aggressive...they obviously don't want him to be AS AGGRESSIVE as years before..

    As far as his free throw shooting I think he's just in a free throw slump..He shot 80+ % in both Nov & Dec...but this months he's at 70%...he'll get his stroke back from the line im not worried about that..

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