Bondage?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TaS, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Do you really buy the argument that Joe's hands have been tied and that is the only reason why the team appears to be a bottom dweller for the foreseeable future?

    We now have a team and a salary structure 99% hand crafted by Joe Dumars (with Lawrence Frank reportedly being inserted by Gores as the only exception).

    This is why I'm assuming that Gores will fix the glitch within 300 days. He bought the team, he wants it to do well, he wants his guys in there, and he probably has some little part of him that desires to put more than 10,000 people per night in the arena in order to turn a profit.

    Joe has an awesome resume, but pretty soon Gores will order a paternity test and find out that this is Joe's baby:

    The New NBA (prize FA signings and 1st round draft picks)-
    Ben Gordon- Signed as a FA by JD despite the fact that we had multiple players already at the position and BG was known for being an undersized and poor defender. JD seemed to be trying to set the NBA record for most money paid to bench player.

    Charlie Garbage'- Singed as a FA by JD on the first day of free agency... like he was salivating to lock him up before everyone else started bidding him through the stratosphere. CV also was known as a cream puff defender who was in love with the outside shot. Think Antoine Walker, but with a tweeting addition. Sure, Charlie flies off the handle whenever he gets into a verbal conflict, and yeah, it's possible that he lies about the events to appear more sympathetic, but the good news is that his suspensions actually help the team. He's untradable and will be here through 2014, so he'll always be reminding Gores of JD.

    Rodney Stuckey- Drafted by Joe and resigned as a FA by Joe. Part of the reason why Joe found a way to clear out Billups... who later helped recruit away Afflalo for a back of popcorn (i.e. the rights to Kyle Singler if he ever decides to come stink up the NBA). Resigned by Joe for an upper market level salary. Questions of his shooting ability, lack of assists, and leadership remain. Imagine a Bull in a china shop... the china represents defenders with their feet set outside the circle and the shop owner represents the refs.

    Austin Daye- Drafted by Joe at #15. Austin seems to be following in his fathers footsteps (his Dad played 5 years in the NBA). Not sure why JD longed for a 2nd pencil thin SF, except with no ball handling skills. I think it may have something to do with versatility and the new NBA though. Austin's only demonstrated skill so far is burying game winning 3-pointers. Unfortunately, this team is only is a position to utilize that skill 2-3 times per season.

    Brandon Knight- Drafted by Joe at #8. We already have a prized possession point guard who was just resigned, we have a backup PG making $3.5M, and we have $18M locked up at the SG position, so what the heck, take the best available. The only way this works is if we trade some of the Joe's other guys that Knight becomes better than. Knight does fit into the new NBA however, in that he likes to push the ball, shoot floaters, and fire up 3 pointers.

    Greg Monroe- Drafted by Joe at #7. I can't really say anything bad about this guy except that he can't jump or shoot. He's a once in a generation passer (i.e. he passes the ball once in a generation). Despite being drafted at #7, he outperformed and finished 6th in the rookie of the year voting last year.

    The Old Guard-
    Tayshaun Prince- Drafted by Joe. Resigned by Joe. Resigned again by Joe (despite our need to rebuild and Tay's involvement in the mutiny at the Palace). It has become overly clear over the last 5 years as the Championship players have dropped out one by one, that the sole reason for the Piston's syrup like pace is Tay. He's the one common denominator. He's like a coach on the floor... but only in terms of athleticism.

    Rip Hamilton- Joe traded to get him. Joe then resigned him at an astronomical level right as he was trading away Billups... which sent Rip into a multi year depression/ pout-fest. Joe was forced to buy out Rip's contract when he decided one that they he only wanted 2 of the mutineers on the team and not the captain mutineer. He didn't really force him to walk the plank... it was more like he took port in Hawaii and dropped him off with 2 bags of gold, the best rifle, a fishing pole, and some hot women.

    Ben Wallace- Joe traded for him and then resigned him. Ben was picked up by the Bulls in FA when he was past his prime. They traded him to Cleveland where he then watched Lebron act like a complete idiot for a year or two. They then traded him to Phoenix for an even more washed up Shaq. Phoenix bought him out. Joe was still stalking him though and nabbed him back as a FA. Joe was so impressed with him that he resigned him yet again. Ben was awesome from 2001 through 2007ish. Besides the Malice at the Palace, the mutiny, and the gun charges, the obsession with being the locker room DJ, and his refusal to wear a headband despite being one of the highest paid players on a team, he has been an incredible role model- mainly in terms of forcing guys to lift weights.

    Jason Maxiell- Drafted by Joe and resigned by Joe as an overpriced, untradable FA. At first it was rumored that JMax eats babies. It turned out that he eats hamburgers and french fries. He's like Ben Wallace, but without the talent or the shooting range. About 3 times a season, he dunks the ball spectacularly because he has no other way to put the ball in the basket.

    The Other Guys (positional pickups and 2nd round draft picks)-
    Will Bynum- Picked up by Joe and then resigned to an above market contract to add character to the team after his stint in Israel (where he apparently mowed over some pedestrian after a fight outside of a night club in which his brother was stabbed). Despite being way undersized and ineffective while on the court, he somehow exceeded Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point pace during a 4th quarter win at the Palace. He also lucked his way into 20 assists, which was the highest in the league that year and the first by a Piston in a quarter century. It is unclear what type of performance enhancing substance propelled him those performances, but it does not appear as though it was money.

    Damien Wilkins- Signed by Joe. This will likely end up like a Scooby Doo episode where he is later unmasked and it turns out that Michael Curry snuck his way back into the league.

    Jonas Jerebko- Drafted by JD in the second round and played great. As we all know, he tested off the charts on Arnie Kander's ballerina evaluation system. In a stroke of misfortune, he blew out his achilles and cost the Pistons a likely championship in 2011. Joe had no choice but to sign him as a FA and hope that his injury recovered. It has. The only problem now is that we have a 230 lb Swedish SF trying to stop Amare Staudemire and Kevin Garnett.

    Terrico White- Drafted by JD in the second round. White was supposedly the next Kim Jong Il.
    "At 6'5" and 195 lbs, he was known as a fundamentally sound player who possessed a natural athletic ability. In addition to playing basketball, White was also the football team's starting quarterback, a member of the track and field team and a starting pitcher for the baseball team, where it was reported that he threw a fastball at 90 mph." Like Jerebko, he suffered an injury and missed an entire season. He must have lipped off to the man, because he was released by JD this year without getting any PT. The Hornets took a look at him and weren't impressed. He's currently residing in the "where are they now" file- i.e. the Idaho Stampede. He has 1/3rd as many points as Antoine Walker for the Stampede this season.

    Vernon Macklin- Drafted by JD late in the 2nd round. Who cares? Not Lawrence Frank. We need bigs, but not bad enough to play Macklin until we are down about 30 with 2 minutes to go... so he only plays every other game.
     
  2. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's how you build a contender.
     
  3. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    I loved the whole post, but I just had to highlight the part that was hilarious to me..........

    I really agree with many who feel that Joe's days are numbered. i've felt that way since he started resigning all the old guard. I think Gores agrees with you right now...............

    We still have to convince some here who feel we've just begun a slow and careful rebuilding process.
     
  4. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    A humorous yet very accurate recap. I hope Joe's suitcase is big enough for his baggage.

    Laimbeer?
     
  5. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Kevin Pritchard.
     
  6. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Outstanding write-up.
     
  7. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    DEEETROIT BAAASKETBAAAALLLL!!!!
     
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  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    This post was funny, sad, and true all at the same time.

    It is very true that Monroe can't jump, but he can shoot (leads the team and is in the top ten in the entire NBA at 57% FG). He is one of the best passers on the team (he is 3rd in the entire NBA for centers with 2.6 assists per game).
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's the best thing that we have going on right now, no doubt... but he only has a high FG% because of his touch inside the paint, not his shooting.

    To put it into perspective:
    Outside the paint, he's shooting .227 and shot .248 last year.

    Ben Wallace shot .274 from outside the paint last year. Maxiell shot .379 outside the paint. Wilcox .433. Kwame Brown was at .400 his last year with us. Amir shot .438 on J's. Nazr .320. Ratliff .300. Brezec .500. I'm guessing that you'd have to all the way back to Chuck Nevitt to find a Piston with a lower FG % outside the paint than Monroe.
    And on Monroe's shots from outside the paint, he gets blocked at a historically unprecedented rate of 14% (a slight improvement from 17% last year).

    Maybe he can shoot, but he doesn't.

    I'll give it up on the passes though. I was just getting carried away. He's a smart passer with some flashes that let you know that his bball IQ is high.
     
  10. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    That was a solid use of my time. I appreciate the work you put into that post, very nice.

    I think the most important part of the whole post is the fact that Gores is a business man, and he knows he's operating at about 35-40% efficiency, when his product is only bringing 10,000 people into the Stadium. So he will make a change, simple as that. I don't doubt he feels passion for this team, but it's business first.
     
  11. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Nice job Tayshaun. Agree with nearly everything.

    If Joe's hands were tied, whoever did the tying should have used a stronger knot. Seems like he was able to wriggle free and get to the checkbook to resign Rodney and Tay.
     
  12. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

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    I will say the same thing I said before.

    We fire Dumars and hire a new GM ..

    Then what?

    Suddenly Cousins ask for a trade and we get him giving up Daye and a 2nd rounder?
    Or better yet, Daye begins to play like Lil' Dirk Nowitzki and we get Cousins for just a 2nd rounder?
    In a matter of weeks Monroe learn to play defense?
    CV stops sucking?

    I'll try to be clear here. I'm NOT saying that Joe Dumars isn't to blame. No way.

    If there is someone to blame here is Joe Dumars, but if we have to divide the blame, I would say that the blame is 70% on Joe Dumars.

    But Dumars is not guilty if CV doesn't come to train and can't stop a kid to score.
    Dumars is not guilty if Ben Wallace is getting old.
    Dumars is not guilty if he can't make a decent trade or a decent sign.

    Then again, yes, Dumars is guilty of overpaying players like Maxiell, Rip, resigning prince and giving him 30 minutes per night. and guilty of a lot and a lot and a lot of things more.

    What I'm trying to say is that, yes, you want to fire Dumars, fir him, bring Laimbeer or Pritchard or who ever you want but with this new GM the team will still be looking like :censored: . And we won't be able to trade Ben Gordon or Stuckey or Prince for good players just because we fire Dumars.
    That won't be happening with or without Dumars.

    But I want to learn, I know I don't know a LOT of things, so please, tell me how much will this team improve if we fire Joe Dumars now.
     
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The rebuild takes time, but it never happens if you have a GM hanging onto the past and loyal to "his"guys. I'm guessing a new GM with a real vision would take much more drastic moves to blow this thing up and give us a chance in 5 years.

    My suggestion was more that gores has to shake it up though. it seems unlike him to clean house all around Joe and then ignore the root of the problem.
     
  14. max

    max All-Star

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    I wonder if the current Dumars would have the guts to pull off some of the trades from the early years. Trading Stack for Rip. Giving up on Cleaves and White after one season. Trading Jerome Williams ( a very popular player ) for Corliss. Or would he have never made the Rip trade or insisted that Mateen Cleaves would finally get it and hence never would have perused Billups. Or thought Sheed was too risky to trade for.

    I just cannot see current Dumars doing most of those moves. He does not take risks anymore.
     
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  15. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Tremendous, Tas! I believe Big Ben got fined for refusing to not wear a headband though, didn't he? It was his 1st year with the Bulls?

    Really nice job though........
     
  16. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    It's easy to forget...but you're correct. Joe really has changed his approach, versus...being a GM who has just made some dumb moves. Shipping out Cleaves after just one season when he was such an intracal part at MSU was a surprise. Signing Sheed I remember being a BOLD stroke of genius. Re-signing Stuckey at best...was safe.
     
  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    This is only a problem if he take a lot of shots outside the paint. Otherwise, who cares about his percentage out there?
     
  18. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    This content of TaS's post should serve as the Pistons' media guide.
    Excellent summary of the current state of the team.

    Some specific highlights for me were:
     
  19. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    CV - come on, he didn't train and couldn't stop a kid in Milwaukee. Did Joe think there was something special in Michigan water?

    BW - True. And I don't have a problem with having him back for the last two years of his career at a reasonable price.

    Trades - Maybe, maybe not. We won't ever have the info to know, but if Joe gets fired then I think we can assume that there were some moves to be had and he didn't make them.
     
  20. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Joe's still making risky moves. Signing CV and Gordon were both risky moves. Sending away Billups for AI was a risky move. I'd say signing Kuester was a risky move too; betting on a assistant-coach-for-life. They just all ended up not working out and blowing up in his face.

    The thing about risky moves is this: if it works out, you're a genius; if it doesn't, you're a boneheaded moron.

    Seems like Joe's luck has run out.
     

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