Discussion in 'November 2005 Games' started by mercury, Oct 2, 2005.
You must remember too, Ben got beat by the same person just as much as DMC did. Be fair.
Speaking of negatives
5 of 17 from beyond the arc. I don't call that expert marksmanship. I just hope that in future games if the Pistons are not shooting the rock that well from back there, they'll find other ways to score. Seventeen three-point attempts is too many. I don't want it to become the norm. But it did seem like Detroit scored from a variety of ways tonight.
most disturbing was that Sheed accounted for almost half of those attempts. If I remember correctly, he was like 0-5 at the half. I like it that sheed can hit those but dang man.
sheed ended up with a great stat line but he had the most atrocious shooting night which really contributed to our poor first half. he wouldn't stop shooting - i was like either he has to start making shots or just stop taking them. it contributed to giving up so many easy baskets in the paint. at least he buckled down when it counted.
arroyo was amazing and got a standing ovation from the crowd - if he can just stay consistent...5 assists, 2 steals, and 4-5 shooting in 11 minutes is pretty sweet.
and i'd also like to add that the new spot for my season tickets is rather amazing :D
if you listened to the game on the radio in the postgame rasheed was talking to blaha, and george asked him if flip said anything to them in halftime, and rasheed said that flip told them that they were not playing the way that makes them win, and that they were shooting too much jumpers and more importantly letting boston get very easy buckets.
at least he stepped in that fourth quarter he was huge then.
Boston Globe version of Lee
Hey I picked this up from the Boston Globe forum ...kindof of a Leecap except written by a smart person. Some good points with an obvious Celtic bias..
Posted by MikeDfromNP on Nov-15 10:58 PM
This was a tale of two halves. The Celtics played their best ball of the year in the first, they were outplayed and executed in the second. It was a hard game to watch, because no matter how well things were going, you just had the feeling that it could all go to pieces. I have to commend the extraordinary performances of Ricky Davis and Chauncey, should still be a Celtic, Billups. Here are some of the major points I think need discussion.
1. The officiating - I know that some of you consider blaming the officials a cop out, and for the most part it is, but hear me out. The Celtics were playing a great team on their own home court, and the C's have trouble getting respect on their own against middling ones. If the C's had taken the Pistons out at the beginning of the third quarter, which they easily could have done, this wouldn't have been a problem. The thing is, they didn't, so the officials let the Pistons get away with stuff so that they could stay in it. Whining about it doesn't really get you anywhere, but realizing that it happens is necessary.
The Pistons have earned their respect. They will get the calls, that's the way things work. A team, like the Celtics, to get that respect need to knock teams like this on their asses. It wasn't just the lack of free throws, it was the fact that the refs let the Pistons manhandle the C's when the game got close. The C's need to make sure that doesn't happen. The Pistons didn't get the star treatment 2 years ago at this time. They were getting screwed themselves by the refs in games just like this one. They weren't given the respect by the officials, they fought through the bias and won it. They won it. The Celtics will need to do the same. If you watched the game, you know what I'm talking about.
2. Al Jefferson - I've been positive with regards to Doc, but unless something comes out regarding an injury, he really messed up with this one. Why didn't Al get major minutes in the second half, and why didn't he get the ball?!?! The Pistons didn't have an answer for the kid. He was red hot, and playing with a ton of confidence. H erebounded well and even Big Ben was shaking his head with frustration. I was impressed with his quickness, and how he attacked the rim. He could have given us a few much needed baskets in the second half, yet he didn't really get much a chance to do that. His jump shot was very fluid too.If he starts hitting that every game, most of the teams in the league won't have a prayer in stopping.
3. Paul - Had a very nice game tonight. I thought they didn't utilise him enough in the 4th, and that really hurt. Looked out of sync in the first half, but didn't take bad shots and played solid team ball. He was on fire at the end of the 3rd. The lack of foul calls hurt his game the most. He was creating a lot f contact on his drives, but the refs kept their whistles in their back pockets. If Paul doesn't get those calls, then he is reduced to being a jump shooter. He should have had at least FT 10 attempts in this one, but we can't cry about it ( see item 1 above).
4. The fast break - It was up and running in the first half and practically non existent in the second. The Celtics were more responsible for this than the Pistons. They need to learn that they are the ones in control, not the other team, and that pushing the break will facilitate the half court offense even if it doesn't translate into a bucket at first.
5. The Beginning of the Third Quarter - To me this was where the eventual defeat was set up. The Celtics came out and were getting wide open shots right off the bat, yet they weren't hitting them. They were still playing the same good defence, but the shooting just dried up. They responded to this badly. They started to force things instead of realizing that the shots would eventually start going in again. This played right into the Pistons hands. They got the game close again, and set the pace of the game to something more to their liking.
Sam and Worcester are big on this, is Red Aurbach, and now so am I. It is of the utmost importance that this team learns to came out of the blocks with the right mental approach at the beginning of the second half. They could have made great strides in putting the game away in the first 4 minutes of the 3rd quarter, yet they didn't. That gave the Pistons hope and that's the lat thing that we wanted. This is where their youth really works against them.
6. Blount and Raef - Is it just me, or did it seem that they actually refused to pass to Raef at times? I was watching him yelling for the ball, something he rarely does, yet they would pass to someone else. This really hurt us as Raef looked to me if he felt he was on, and his own team iced him.
Blount was great in the first half, but when he started bricking open jumpers at the beginning of the 3rd quarter, the rest of his game fell to pieces. He has to maintain focus, like Paul does. If Paul doesn't have his shot going, he puts a greater emphasis on the rest of his game. The same can be said of Ricky. Blount, who played very good defense in the first half, played a lot of spectator D in the second. Doc has to either kick him in the ass when this happens, or he needs to nail him to the bench.
7. Dickau - If they are going to play him, then he needs to shoot the ball, because he isn't much of a defender. He's an excellent shooter, but he keeps passing up open shots. If he's cold, that's one thing, but not shooting them to begin with is another.
8. Composure - They lost it utterly in the 4th. Were they getting screwed on the fouls? Hell yeah, but that is going to the way these things go until they win the respect of the officials. They have to overcome these things. They let the situation get them out of their game. If they are hacking you on drives to the basket, and it isn't being called, then throw an elbow into the hacker's face. He'll stop doing it all on his own. If things are starting to go south, don't abandon the game plan, that's what got you there to begin with. They have to toughen themselves up. That's what the Pistons did 2 years ago.
This was a close game right up to the final minutes. That it got out of hand had more to do with the Celtics' mental state than what the Pistons were doing. I give credit to the Pistons for hitting a lot of big shots. They really stepped it up when they smelled blood. The Celtics had their opportunity to win the game earlier, but they came up way short. I hope that Doc gets his act together quick. The way that he coached the second half didn't impress me at all.
Link to discussion thread at Boston.com
I'm usually the first one to admit if we're getting hometown calls on fouls and such, but I didn't see much bias. The Celtics had a lot of easy baskets in the first half - hence no foul shots. In the second half they resorted to jumpers - hence no foul shots. They weren't aggressive so they weren't going to get the benefit of calls.
While Jefferson *was* on fire in the 2nd half, it's not a Corliss situation where you necessarily wonder why they didn't play him more. He mostly got hot on Darko - he wasn't going to get the defense by our starters. At least he realizes Dickau is a liability - that guy can't defend period.
His points on #4 and #8 are way off base though. The disappearing fast break had just as much to do with the Pistons as it did the Celtics. When we stopped taking ill-advised jumpers and starting making baskets and actually playing defense, there weren't any fast break opportunities to be had...it's not like they could just push it up the floor harder to generate them.
"That it got out of hand had more to do with the Celtics' mental state than what the Pistons were doing."
That is just silly - the Pistons *caused* that mental state of the Celtics. We've seen 3 straight games now (Phoenix, Portland, Boston) that the Pistons simply broke the will of the other team. They kicked up the intensity and the opponents reverted to shooting ill-advised jumpers as a response to that.
2nd Unit and Darko
Man Flip has got to start using the bench. As I've oft posted before, I don't mind us playing targeted D, pushing the O for big parts of the game (the balance of O and D depends on the opponent, score, etc.). But there is absolutely no reason for the starters to be logging huge minutes, when they aren't playing top-notch D. If Flip had played Arroyo, Evans, Darko, McDyess and Delfino the entire second quarter (maybe more) yesterday, we'd probably have been in the same place at the end of the first half, with the starters rested and ready to go gang-busters in the second half. They did it anyways, but they're going to wear themselves out in the long-run if they have to repeat that performance.
I understand that Flip is trying to get the starters in rhythm, but clearly they're already there. Its time to get the second unit in order, so that they can give the starters a blow. I'd like to see the whole second unit play from the 10:00 mark in the 1Q until the end of the half every game, if they can keep things close.
Darko needs to leap-frog the struggling McDyess in the line-up for a few games, and needs to be the focus of the offense on 5-6 plays per game. He's shooting 56% for the season and 100% from the line (and pretty good D in stretches). Let's see if those numbers hold up with some PT. I really feel for the guy. I'd be going nuts if I was in his shoes. (I'm not patient either).
DMC's Weak "D" and Foul Trouble
Anyone else besides me think that Darko's weak "D" has anything to do with him being overly concerned about getting to many quick fouls called on him if he were to be more agressive on "D". That is what I think is happening right now.
If Flip plays the starters 2 extra minutes per game for 75 games and we win homecourt, he can rest them like crazy down the stretch.
That's only an extra 150 minutes per man. It can be made up with 4 DNP CDs in the last 7 games.
There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. Right now the Pistons are winning and scaring a lot of teams. That's exactly what was needed.
Why would anyone eat a Big Mac when they can eat a Jumbo Jack? LOL
I wish I could have heard the Celtic announcers again this game... even though I can't stand them. It would have been really satisfying to hear them talking about how great the Celts were through 3 quarters and then hear the silence in the 4th.
Main man and Lanier fan
Seems to me that you are both right. When DMC entered the game last night, at a time when no Piston was exactly doing well, he got an offensive board with a bucket. Probably feeling good about then. Why not run a play for him to get another bucket.
Instead, when he let his man get a basket or two, just like the other Pistons were doing, they jerk him out right away.
Of course he is playing less aggressive defense because he knows his minutes will be very limited and he cannot afford to take chances that might result in his being pulled even sooner. CB says he should not worry about his fouls but I would think that is easier said than done.
I wonder too, if playing the second unit a while in the second quarter would have resulted in the Pistons being any worse off than they were. I realize that this is hindsight, but he manages to play the other members of the second unit.
Micro, I am not a team conditioning coach but I think that there may be a difference in playing the guys shorter minutes throughout the season and playing them too many minutes during the majority of the season and then resting them a few games at the end. For one thing, during those heavy minutes for game after game, they would be susceptable to injuries that might not heal in a couple of game. Just a thought; I have no medical education. And playing the second unit more during just the last few games is not the same as playing them a few more minutes during the majority of the season.
We kept the other streak alive last night, too. Playing Darko a few minutes did not result in a Piston loss.
We had 3 days in-between games and another 3 for the next one ... no harm in giving the starters a couple extra minutes with the extra rest time available. We obviously needed them tonight. I agree the bench should get some more minutes, but I'm content with riding the streak and doing what works.
As for Darko, Flip made the effort to put him in the game as the first sub off the bench in the first quarter, and sure he made a nice move in the post, but he also lost the ball twice and was not aggressive on rebounds. He's still got learning to do. I thought his defense on Jefferson was pretty decent actually - he fought with him in the post before the ball got passed to him, and he made Jefferson reach for his shot (although not as much as he could have). He seemed concerned with not giving up a baseline drive, which led to being a step late on jumping to try and block the shot.
It was good seeing Darko in there early yesterday, but his timid defensive skills were exposed because the game still seems to be to fast for him. With Al Jefferson's hustle and speed, Darko appeared to be a step slow in guarding him and yes he needs to be more agressive in either stepping up to grab a board, a loose ball, and putting those long arms is someone face. More PT in the first part of the game will increase his confidence as well as get him more involved in the past face of the experienced players.
I've been extremely busy
But I'm glad the Piston won again. For what I read CB had a scoring outburst on the third Q (didn't get to see the game ) and Arroyo's game on the 4th sealed the deal. Anyone up for trading him? .
actually darko played pretty good d on jefferson he just hit the shots. he was feeling it he also hit a shot on ben a few minutes later. darko was aggressive on the boards the first thing he did in the game was grab a board and take it right back up.
i think flip will start using his bench much more after our streak ends. but right now it doesn't make sense to mess up what we have going. i don't think darko should leap frog mcdyess but i think he should get some of mcdyess minutes because he's struggling with his shot. darko actually isn't struggling with his shot so i think running some plays for him would be a good thing.
its great that anyone of our starting 5 can step up big. many games you will not see everyone of the pistons struggling. man chauncey was crazy that 3rd quarter, ricky davis killed us in the 2nd too but we pulled off a win. i'm telling you that game felt much closer than 15 points.
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