Home Boston Celtics Saturday, April 05, 2014

Discussion in 'April 2014' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Don't forget their agenda against keeping their job, goes hand in hand with their agenda against winning.
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  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Amir did not get that much time with us. Middleton hardly any. Delfino none to speak of after his knee was more healed. And Afflalo was left out of the playoff rotation before we let him go. (Despite all evidence to the contrary that we had a better chance of winning when he plays.)
  3. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Amir played 910 minutes his final year with the Pistons

    Delfino even with injuries played 428
    Afflalo 1235

    Tony Mitchell has played 58 minutes and the season is almost over.
  4. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    So you are telling us that Tony Mitchell did get minutes?
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  5. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I looked at the player stats to see how Amir, Middleton, Delfino and Affllalo measured against Mitchell.

    During the time Amir was with the Pistons he had the following players he was competing with for the power spots:
    2005-06: Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, McDyess, Maxiell, Darko, Dale Davis, Kelvin Cato
    2006-07: Rasheed Wallace, Chris Webber, McDyess, Nazr Mohammed, Maxiell, Dale Davis
    2007-08: Rasheed Wallace, McDyess, Nazr Mohammed, Chiekh Samb, Theo Ratliff, Maxiell, Primoz Brezec
    2008-09: Rasheed Wallace, McDyess, Maxiell, Kwame Brown

    He was competing for a handful of minutes against a lot of guys the entire time he was here. Despite that he averaged 13, 15.5, 12.3 and 14.7 mpg during his tenure with the Pistons. The first two years didn't count as it wasn't until his 3rd season where he saw more action. Both his 3rd and 4th years, he played in 62 games each. In his last year, when the front court was the least crowded, he actually started 24 games. Considering the number of guys we had on the roster, I would say that he was given sufficient play time in his 3rd and 4th years when he was here. So he did get play time that he deserved based on what he had to offer at the time.

    He actually was exactly the same player he was with us at Toronto during his first year there. He averaged 3 more minutes per game and started 5 games for the Raptors. It wasn't until 2010-11 season that he actually turned the corner.

    Same list for Afflalo:
    2007-08: Rip, Flip Murray, Stuckey
    2008-09: Rip, Iverson, Stuckey

    He appeared in 75 and 74 games in his two seasons for us, getting a total of 17 starts. He averaged 12.9 and 16.7 mpg for us. He really came alive in his second year with the Nuggets. Considering how many guard minutes Rip, Billips, Stuckey and Iverson were sucking up, he got plenty of opportunity as well. The big issue there was that we got nothing in return for sending him away.

    I totally agree with Lee that Middleton could've used more playing time with us. But still, he appeared in 27 games and averaged 17.6 mpg.

    Delfino had 3 years with Detroit. He appeared in 30, 68, 82 games. That's continuously improving usage. He averaged 15.3, 10.7, 16.7 mpg. So he got quite a lot of burn as well. After he was traded to Toronto, he started taking a lot more three pointers and actually started hitting them, which improved his overall value. Other than that, he is more or less the same player he was when he was wearing a Pistons uniform.

    Tony Mitchell, on the other hand, has appeared in 18 games so far and only has seen 3.2 mpg of action.

    Here's where these guys were picked:
    Amir - 56th pick
    Afflalo - 27th pick
    Middleton - 39th pick
    Delfino - 25th pick
    Mitchell - 37th pick

    Side note: Wow, Amir is actually an amazing story; hardly you find a player of his caliber that low in the draft.

    Mitchell's draft position is closest to Middleton. Middleton was able to crack the rotation in the second half of the season. Mitchell seems unable to beat Jerebko, Jorts or Chaz. Considering the fact that the trade deadline has passed and we're not showcasing any players, Mitchell must still be really raw if he can't steal playing time away from Chaz.

    I think it's a little too early to pass any judgment on Mitchell. Amir, even though he faced a tougher competition than Mitchell, didn't really show what he could do until his 3rd year.

    All this research seems to support basketbills' point and sort of counteract the notion that Amir, Middleton, Delfino and Afflalo didn't get play time as Pistons with Amir being the only exception. Amir needed several years to be NBA-ready. Such may be the case with Mitchell.
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  6. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Hold on a minute there Lee. You are coaching to lose.

    Because if you look at Jerebko when he plays shooting guard, his stats blow up to near Jordan levels (32.1 PER), nearly double what he gets at the SF positions. And better than that, he holds opposing SG's to a mind bending 0.0 PER.

    Obviously, we need to put him at shooting guard, where his slow shot, poor dribbling, lack of speed and blinding inconsistency can really be put on show.
  7. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Tony Mitchell is horrible. the guy can show you a lot. he's got the ingredients but he can't put it together. or rather, he hasn't put it together. I haven't seen anyone so underwhelming in the d-league. he is worse than Kim English. Amir stood out. Vernon macklin stood out. and every so often his athleticism shines and he dunks or blocks, but he seems to process the game so slow.
    people dog kyle singler for being slow but there is a similar thing going on with Mitchell and just like you don't expect singler to break out athletically, I don't see Mitchell ever getting a feel for the game.
  8. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Quite easy to say without ever seeing him play for the Pistons when it matters. To me, I am arguing to try something different, while a myriad of people here are arguing for trying nothing different at all, despite the fact the Pistons never win games anymore.For sure, our coach, and Joe Dumars, chose 100% to never try anything different.

    For instance, we won 2 straight with Bynum not playing. So they fired the coach and went right back to Bynum playing, and right back to losing every game.

    We could try playing without Singler, rather than featuring him as our highest minutes player. Pope could take all his shooting guard minutes, improving our defense, and JJ could take all his small forward minutes, improving our rebounding and inside play.

    At this point, to argue that Singler should play 40 minutes per game is to argue for continuing to lose all the games. So maybe that is what you want, since it improves our chance of getting a better draft pick. To me, losing on purpose does nothing but instill a loser mentality. And losing, without ever trying to improve the team, will leave you with a pretty horrible team, that no draft pick will fix.
  9. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    JJ has played what, 2 or 3 minutes at shooting guard. No data. He has played one third of his minutes at small forward, a considerable amount of time, so the data is certainly worth looking at and trying JJ as our primary backup small forward.
  10. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    The sample sizes are small everywhere. He has played, what, 5% of available minutes at SF. I would hardly call that a great amount of data to base your arguments on.
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Jj's jump shot form is unique. I can't think of another player in history that it resembles. He seems to be trying to keep the ball high and to minimize wasted motion to speed up his release.

    It's pretty amazing that in a sport where form rules and where every player has a jump shot that they are as different as signatures.

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