Break Up the Starters

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Superstarov, Jun 9, 2006.

?

Who don't we need?

Poll closed Jun 16, 2006.
  1. Chauncey

    5 vote(s)
    22.7%
  2. Rip

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  3. Tay

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Sheed

    6 vote(s)
    27.3%
  5. Ben

    10 vote(s)
    45.5%
  1. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Rasheed for Zaza and Al Harrington. Give Al a deal that starts at $7.5 mill (similiar to Tay).
    MLE to Bonzi
    Woo the heck out of Jackie Butler
    DD in a S&T for Speedy
    Starters
    PG- Chauncey SG-Rip SF-Tay PF-Dyess C-Ben
    Bench
    PG-Speedy SG-Bonzi(PIP) PF/SF-Al Harington(PIP)
    C-Pachulia/Butler(PIP)
    Reserves
    Delfino, Amir, Maxiel, KEEP CATO!!!,Lindsey.

    Quick Athletic Lineup:
    PG-Speedy SG-Rip SF-Tay PF-AL C-Ben

    Losing Sheed's contract will give us some lux cap flexibilty, and next season we can try and S&T Chuancey for a different type of player, cause now way will they ink him to another deal.
  2. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Bold statement there dirtymoney.
  3. SKluck

    SKluck First Round Draft Pick

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    I'm gonna go with Sheed. It's not for talent but attitude. He is such a bipolar player that I think we could do much better with a consistent PF that can muscle around on the inside. Chauncey+Rip+Tay are enough of a 3 pt threat. Having 4 of your starters able to hit the 3 is nice, but unnecessary and only 2-3 teams in the league can do that. When your PF is taking more 3s than the other players on your team combined, you've got problems.

    I think it affects our status as a "jumpshooting team" more than Flip's offense does.

    But it is pretty clear Joe is going to give these guys another chance. Less than a championship next year (Which, let's be honest AIN'T LIKELY), chauncey and sheed are gone. This is not a big year for Joe, next year there will be huge changes though.
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Re: negatory!!

    We're aggressive? If you hug Chauncey any tighter, he'll probably asphyxiate.
  5. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    I think Chauncey got a flat tire. After Arroyo was traded he averaged arouund 43 mpg! That took his toll on him. Although I don't know why because it seemed like lindsey played more than arroyo?
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Because Lindsey could advance the ball in a reasonable amount of time.

    Watching Carlos Arroyo bring the ball up and dribble out the shot clock was like chewing a dry mouthful of peanut butter. You keep chewing even though you aren't accomplishing anything.
  7. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    If I were Joe D, I'd already have Chauncey on the block. If Ben walks (meaning we don't get something big back that can keep us as contenders), it would be stupid to hold onto Chauncey. His effort is suspect and his value isn't gonna get any higher than it is right now. Don't wait and let him walk to a major market (seems like something he'd be after).
  8. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    OK another one.
    Rasheed and Delfino for Paul Pierce. Boston and Pierce have worn each other out. They need a legit front court player. We move Cato in as a Starter (but Dyess gets most of the mins) allowing Chuancey, Tay and Rip to do their thing, with some muscle up front. We rotate three wing players just like we rotate our frontcourt so it's literally like having seven starters. Can you imagine a lineup where we go small and quick with Tay at the 4 (playing much like Diaw).

    PG-Speedy (somehow, someway he'll be here):fingerscr
    SG-Rip
    SF-Pierce
    PF-Tay
    C-Ben
    Or go big with Tay at the point
    PG-Tay
    SG-Rip
    SF-Pierce
    PF-Dyess
    C-Ben
    And Still willing to shop Chauncey for Big AL.
  9. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    You can't just tradeb these guys. Its not a damn video game. Chauncey is no doubt a top 5 point gaurd, and so what do we get in return? Even if we get another top 5 pg he'll have to change his style of play. To me here is the top 5 point gaurds:
    CB
    Nash
    Kidd
    Paul
    Iverson

    How much of an upgrade would this be? All the other 4 would first have to learn the style and gameplan. If we got Nash you could forget about defense. Ben would be trying to gaurd 3 guys at once from getting into the paint, and you think Ben can finish on the break like the suns and will Sheed run the floor? Tay and Rip can't stop and pop 3s and hit them every time either plus Nash turns the ball over like that. Kidd can't shoot consistantly, and I'd be very worried of him getting injured. Who would hit the big shot if CB wasn't here? Chris Paul is more of a drive to the basket and fast break guy as well so would he work with the Pistons? Even if he did the Hornets won't trade him for a guy just as good with much more mileage. Iverson would get us many more foul shots and could really take the team on its shoulders, but he'd soak our money. Bottom line is I think Chauncey should say and you can't just say trade this guy. I'm telling all you flaky fans that if we get a legit beacjk up for CB and give Chauncey some rest you'll be praising him again. What happened to MVP? Everyone did bad so get off the guys back. Pathetic:tsk:
  10. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    :laugh: :pound: :rofl:

    So.... what exactly is your position on Arroyo? Are you on the fence? Its hard to tell.
  11. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Do you guys really want to see the rest of the teams stats? Chauncey wasn't the only one who played bad every starter played horrible except Tayshaun.

    Rip, Playoffs: 38.3 mpg, 41.3 fg%, 35 3fg%, 85.1 ft%, 2.9 rpg, 2.7 apg, .94 spg, .28 bpg, 2.17 to, 20.4 ppg.

    Thats only the playoffs here's Rips ECF stats: 40 mpg, 37.8 fg%, 29.4 3fg%, 90.6 ft%, 3.8 rpg, 2 apg, 1.17 spg, .33 bpg, 2.67 to, 20.7 ppg

    Sheed, Playoffs: 34.9 mpg, 43 fg%, 40.5 3fg%, 52.7 ft%, 6.3 rpg, 1.8 apg, .56 spg, .83 bpg, 1.39 to, 14.1 ppg.

    Sheeds ECF: 36.2 mpg, 36.2 fg%, 25.9 3fg%, 66.7 ft%, 6.3 rpg, .5 spg, .33 bpg, 1.5 to, 10.5 ppg.

    Ben, Playoffs: 35.7 mpg, 46.5 fg%, 0 3fg%, 27.3 ft%, 10.5 rpg, 1.7 apg, 1.33 spg, 1.22 bpg, .83 to, 4.7 ppg.

    Ben, ECF: 34.3 mpg, 66.7 fg%, 0 3fg%, 33.3 ft%, 9.5 rpg, 1.7 apg, 1.5 spg, .67 bpg, .67 to, 6 ppg.
  12. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree with you 100%. It really bothered me when, earlier in the season, Joe was asked about a possible CB injury and he replied with something like "If CB gets injured, the season's over".

    WTF?????? Injuries are part of the game. This team has been rediculously lucky on the injury front for several seasons. That's going to catch up with you eventually. So, shouldn't a team with "no superstars" be MORE able to overcome an injury to 1 guy?

    I really, really hated that response. Talk about having all your eggs in one basket.

    And what if CB HAD gotten hurt? Should the team just forfeit the rest of the season, since its obviously a lost cause?

    Look at the injuries/suspensions that Indy has had to overcome in recent years. Some nights they could barely field a lineup. Yet they did much better than many expected - myself included.
  13. max

    max All-Star

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    Something to keep in mind in a few years when his contract is up.

    Point guards are very hard to find. We have a good one. Perhaps not as good as we would like but many teams would love to have him.

    Would you rather go back to a guard like Chuckie?
  14. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    People will be sucking Chauncey's you know what next year just watch. If we get a good back up for him he won't be dead come playoff time. I could see it in the 5th to last game or something like that against Charlotte. Every time in the last 4 minutes he'd lose it off his knee or somehting cuz he was so worn out. Joe get him a back up, a good PF/C as well too.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That's kinda vulgar.

    I think Chauncey should just play and then we can talk about how great he is based on the results.
  16. max

    max All-Star

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    My initial knee jerk reaction after the game 6 loss was to breakup the team and trade a couple of starters. Now after I have simmered down I realize our best chance is to comeback with the same team and an improved bench. And hopefully some luck with Maxiel or Johnson improving.

    I did not vote on this because as boring as it sounds I want the same team back for another chance. Then we can watch things like Paint points, offensive boards and Field goal pct's. All the things that some posters tried warning us about last season. Pistons got lax on the basic's, intoxicated on the 3-ball and all-star selections.

    After watching game 1 of the Finals I know the Pistons are the best team in the league. Just ran into a Miami team that could not seemingly miss. They were playing their best and the Pistons were playing the worst. These things happen in sports.
  17. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    i agree with you max. while its fun to put all these trade ideas out there (gives us something to do in the off-season), i don't think this team needs a huge overhaul.
    the reason i don't like the AI trade is because this teams success was built in part to being very healthy. people say they don't like having the team rest on CB in case he got hurt, but wouldn't it be worse with AI? AI is a walking injury list. he would play less games than CB.
    we are only 1 decent bench player away from greatness again, which if we lucked out, a bonzi deal would secure.
    DEVELOP these damn young guys we already have. Amir, J-Max, Delfino. The answers are already here, Flip is just too blind to see.
    We were hungry in '04. Get the hungry guys playing. Bonzi's hunger and tough play will rub off on the others. Look what Artests attitude brought to Sactown...

    Resign Ben, bring in 1 quality MLE player (Bonzi hopefully), a backup PG (or use if Acker if he looks good) and we're there! CB can punk any PG in the league. He'll be back, and with some extra rest will lead this team back to the 'Ship in 07.
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    I agree. Its fun getting new players. Makes the summer exciting and puts that extra something into the pre-season.

    It is risky and we have to get and give up fair value. As great as our players are its going to be tough convincing some team to take a 30yr old over their 24 year old. Unless you can catch them flustered over a young player wanting to move on. Can get some bargains that way. We will see what happends with the 03 draft class. Sign and trade Sheed for Bosh - where do I sign? Kman for Dyess? Unless a deal like that comes along. Which it probably will not.

    AI has 3 years left making 18.2m, 20.1m, 21.9m over the next 3 years.
  19. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    I agree as well. We have every starter being a top 10 guy at their position. I'm sick of all the trade talk because who would we trade for that would to better than Chauncey or Ben or Sheed? Sure Sheed slacks off, but this playoffs he wasn't able to bring that fire because of the ankle. When he's energetic he's unstoppable and he just couldn't do it. Rasheed isn't a cancer, Ben is still the best defender, and next season everyone will be praising Chauncey as if they never even talked about trading him like everyone here has. The guy is human and you can tell yourself to do something, but soemtimes its just not possible. Get a bench and we could see this team on top of the NBA mountain again.
  20. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    At first I was just playing around, but know I'm dead serious. I would really trade Rasheed for Paul Pierce. Sheed+DD+Mo=Pierce. I'd go hard after Jackie Butler in New York, Keep Cato and then go hard after Speedy Claxton.
    Starters
    PG-CB
    SG-Rip
    SF-Tay
    PF-Ben
    C-Cato
    Bench
    PG-Claxton(speed and penetration=PIP)
    SG-Delfino(decent shooter & slasher=PIP)
    SF-Pierce(The Truth=Pts frm evrywhere, the paint, ftline, hlfcourt etc)
    PF/C-Dyess(Shooting range will spread the floor and open drivng lanes)
    C -Butler(Beast in the paint and 6-10 - 260 holla):fingerscr
    F -Maxiel(another beast in the paint that can knock down the kick out pass)
    Amir
    Lindsey
    This team is a definite upgrade over what we have now and alot younger and quicker.

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