Carlos Arroyo and Flip

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by puertoricanballer, Sep 16, 2005.

  1. puertoricanballer

    puertoricanballer First Round Draft Pick

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    Carlos Arroyo said in a recent interview that when Flip Suanders called him to introduce himself, Flip assured Carlos that he's not like his last two coaches (LB and Jerry Sloan) and he allow people to create on the offensive end. What do you guys think about this? How the team's offense gonna be?
     
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Flip/ Carlos

    It would be interesting to hear some of initial conversations that Flip has with the players individually.

    He seems to be an expert at the buddy approach. And we have a lot of players that didn't take well to the military break-down approach.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I like the idea of more creative offense, but hopefully there is still some structure. Games can get away from teams the freewheel too much.

    As far as the "buddy approach", my observation is that it works for middle of the pack squads. Maybe our guys need some love, but coaches like Popovic, Brown, Scott, Skiles, they are all tough. And their teams are tough. Heck, even Phil Jackson can be a tough coach while managing personalities.

    Hopefully our guys don't get too loose. This is a great SQUAD on paper. The team concept has to be maintained. No one is bigger than the group.
     
  4. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I'm a huge KG fan, and after the Pistons I was all Minn. Flip runs a pretty nice offense, but it relies on too much jump shooting (from midrange area). Carlos will no doubt do better under Flip offensively, but for me that was never the issue.

    Carlos is SLOW, creative with the rock, mad handles, GREAT VISION, but slow none the less. He has a problem finishing at the basket because he doesn't attack with great quickness, and his slow feet are glaringly evident on defense. I hope Flip continues to push Carlos the way Sloan and LB would. Arroyo has alot of ability, but he also has alot of flaws that need correcting. There has to be a happy medium between Carlos and LB/Sloan that Flip can find.
     
  5. puertoricanballer

    puertoricanballer First Round Draft Pick

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    KgregSlow

    Slow? :frusty: Obviously you didn't follow him when he was in Utah or in the PR team. The reason Carlos didn't go to the rim was because LB wasn't allowing him to do it. Remember the 5th game against Indiana? Their guards were watching the back of his shirt all the time, while he was making assists to Dice. I acknowledge his defensive flaws ( I always have) but defense is an attitude and it can be improve; his shooting will be better because he's going to be allow to take his shots. :yell:
     
  6. max

    max All-Star

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    Arroyo

    Arroyos best games as a Piston were his 1st couple before LB had a chance to instill playing "the right way" on him.

    I think its going to be a great year for Arroyo. Give him the freedom to create and run the offense the best way he can.
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    No More Wedgies!

    I gotta post this while it's fresh in my mind.

    First, Carlos fans, please do not take offense at this.

    I'm watching Utah play Toronto earlier last season. I don't know exactly when (nor do I have the inclination to look it up) however Boozer was playing, so it was early.

    Carlos looked like a totally different guard. Totally different from even when he FIRST got to Detroit before the much bally-hooed LB brainwashing, soul destroying, forced basketball talent supression.

    The CA I am watching on Raptors NBATV is fast, decisive and very, very active. He can't defend the pick and roll to save his life, luckily, he's mostly matched up against Milt Palacio whom no one will ever confuse with Reggie Miller.

    Anyway, what the heck is going on? This is a different guy than the one we traded for. I've watched him bring the ball up 20 times, and there is no hint of the drunken "full diaper" waddle-skip he did last year in Detroit.

    I dunno after watching this. I like the Utah CA, not the Detroit CA (yes, the one before LB sucked his eyeballs out of his head, kidnapped his family for ransom and burned the Puerto Rican flag in the locker room).

    I hate the funny walking Carlos. I HATE HIM.

    Bring me the quick, active and aggressive guard that played with Memo. I WANT THE GOOD CARLOS!
     
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Flip and the mid-range jumper

    I've heard a few people talk about how Flip bases his offense off of mid range jumpers. Good thing the Pistons have the best mid-range jump shooter in the game. And the zone defense... Flip has got to be salivating over the options he will have.
     
  9. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    Carlos Arroyo

    I guess the thing about Carlos I do like is how he can involve everyone in the offense. He can push the ball on the fastbreak and throw some really nice passes. He seems to make plays that our other PG's just can't make. He is a nice change of pace PG from Billups. Arroyo gets criticized for his defense alot. I know it's one of his weaker areas but if Flip plays more zones than we can "hide" him a little better. I do think Carlos plays hard on D but he just doesn't have good "defensive feet". I think Carlos is more suited as a "zone defender", he reaches in well to disrupt passes in a zone and can play an area better than a quick player.

    I just really think that with both Arroyo and even Delfino in the game our bench will really try to push tempo. Alot of people forget but Delfino also likes the open court fastbreak game. He can pull a rebound and go coast to coast or he can pass the ball on the break. I really think that people under-estimated how good of passers and players some of the guys on the 2nd unit are. Arroyo is an excellent passer, Delfino is as well (I just finished watching him on a VHS preseason game from last year) and we can't forget about Darko. Darko has really good vision and passing ability for a guy his size. There was one play in that pre-season game vs Minny last year where Delfino, Dupree and Darko ran a fastbreak. Delfino set up Dupree for an easy dunk but Super-Dup missed it and Darko hustled after the board and threw a beautiful no-looker to Dupree who was goal-tended on his next attempt. Darko made a quick "touch pass" from about 18 feet away right on the mark where the ball was in his hands for only a fraction of a second.

    Our second unit should be able to move the ball well on defense and I think Arroyo will start the offense. I do know for a fact that Arroyo feeds the post much better than Hunter. We need a bit season out of Arroyo and I think Flip is the guy to coach him to it.
     
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Nice post Jack,

    I agree there is real potential to have the 2nd unit get out and run...
    Of my critisisms of Delfino it has never included his instincts in the open court... the man was born to run.
    I think the key will be Darko (or whoever) getting the boards a triggering the release

    LB (the two letter curse word :^))... tried to get the team to run as much as possible... I think good teams get back as soon as the shot goes up
    If we can get back to the trapping game these guys could excel at transition...
    but none of them are the other curse word (LH).
     
  11. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    No Trap

    was another annoying thing that I had with LB. During our championship season, we trapped effectively and absolutely "clowned" some teams. I remember trapping Milwaukee in the first round of the playoffs and Damon Jones never looked so confused, same with JKidd's backup. LB completely gave up on that part of our "league best" defense this year.

    I understand that if you only play 7-8 players you won't have the energy to trap the entire game, but that is where LB needed to have more faith in his backups. Darko's "infamous" Dunk in the MIAMI game was a play where he came out to help and trap. The Pistons have length, athleticism and speed. We needed to use it this past season. I refuse to believe that since Mike James wasn't here, we just couldn't trap anymore.

    I really like how well Sheed, Ben and Tay are at springing the trap. They have great length on their arms and get alot of steals. I would also love to see Darko out there trapping as well, he has good enough footspeed to recover if they don't get the steal. We needed that this year and LB refused to use it. I was sorely disappointed. I think/HOPE that Flip will employ the trap more and go deeper into the bench. That trap truly added a whole other dimension to the Pistons, one that I really miss.
     
  12. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    you got that right!

    I completely agree with you. I don't know how many times I yelled at the screen this past season/playoffs...."TRAP! TRAP! TRAP!"
     
  13. iamme

    iamme First Round Draft Pick

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    don't forget Delfino's last few games of the season. he had a game where he had like 6 assists, if my memory serves me correctly.

    with the skill on our bench it's a crime how short our rotation was this past season. just look at how many minutes our starters averaged per game.
     
  14. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    Man are you ever preaching to the choir, Preach on. :usa2:
     
  15. iamme

    iamme First Round Draft Pick

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    i'm certain that next season, the Pistons will again have one of the most formidable benches in the NBA.

    remember when LB first came to the team? he said himself that he wasn't good with a deep bench and he liked a shorter rotation. he said he had trouble finding a right mix of players early during his tenure in detroit. it's no surprise that he decided to avoid those problems and just play his vets obscene amounts of minutes.
     
  16. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    Iamme

    I also remember an LB quote about Darko. It went something like this: "the kid has no bad habits, if he doesn't make it, it will be because I messed him up". I really need to go back and find that quote because those words and his actions went hand and hand.

    This year I think that Flip's style will be a breath of fresh air. Flip was a successful coach in Minny. They always made the playoffs without much around KG. People also sometimes forget that Minnesota went for 5 years without a first round draft pick because of a shady deal with Joe Smith. Making the playoffs for 7 consecutive years with NO FRESH TALENT each year is impressive in itself.

    I felt that when LB was hired that he would be like a kid in a candy-store. He would have such diversity and unique players that his coaching genius would allow him to exploit and tinker with various players and matchups. He did a good job of it the first year. But when the 2nd year rolled around it was as if his heart wasn't in it. I don't think he cared to pour himself into it like the previous season.

    Flip should be in heaven. His new team has so many different styles of players. He can go BIG, he can go small, he can play up-tempo. He can grind it out in the halfcourt. They can TRAP, they can ZONE the can play man-2-man. This Pistons team is very UNIQUE and DIVERSE and I just don't think LB took full use of his arsenal. I think Flip will. Have fun Flip !!!!
     
  17. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    great points

    I seem to remember that too.

    Another good point. I didn't think about that either. So when was the last time he coached/molded a young player? I do agree that being forced to improve through free-agency while being strapped with KG's contract does seem to be a difficult situation for a coach to pull out 7 consecutive years of playoff appearances. Impressive.
     
  18. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    Flip's youth development

    I don't know exactly who you can say that Flip "developed". I know he gets alot of credit for KG but I think that Flip (at least from what's I've seen heard) is more of a play through your mistakes kind of guy. I know he worked with Olowakandi last year. I know Kandi has been in the league for 4-5 years or something like that but he has never been considered worth his #1 overall pick. Kandi was a "decent" playoff guy for them when they were playing the Lakers. I know that Flip has also worked with Billups and Troy Hudsen for PG's. He worked with Terrell Brandon (too bad he was injured). I think he was there with Joe Smith when Joe Smith was young too.

    I really think Flip said the right things at his presser. He said as far as Darko goes he wants to give him a responsibility and see how he responds. At least it sounds like a gameplan. If he can clarify to Darko exactly what he expects and what will happen if he does it then Darko will have something to look forward to. If he tells Darko to grab 3 rebounds and score 4-6pts in 10-12 minutes and sets him goals and tells him if he achieves it he will play more I think Darko will have a Goal to look towards. (I doubt the goals will be statistical, but just for an example I used it). I think LB told Darko one thing and did another. I know for a fact I read an article during the stretch that Darko filled in for Ben and Dice and LB said he was playing well and needed to find more minutes for him. Then LB went on to nail Darko to the bench for the next month or so. LB was full of double-talk on Darko and it had to be frustrating for the kid when he didn't know what to believe or expect.
     
  19. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    You know what lineup I would like to see on occasion?

    PG- Arroyo
    SG- Delfino
    SF- Prince
    PF- Darko
    C- Ben

    All 5 of them can run like crazy, and we have 3 great shot blockers up front. Blocked Shots = Fast break opportunities. Delfino and Ben are also good at getting steals. So, while it may not be the best defensive lineup, it's probably one of our best lineups at turning defense (blocks, steals, etc) into points.
     
  20. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Good line-up.
     

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