Celtic Collapse

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by G-man, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I doubt Ainge is hurting from helping Joe...he just won a title and would have been the front runner for outpacing Joe in GM title wins if Garnett had not gotten hurt.

    Ainge is in a pretty good spot. He just realizes the writing is on the wall here in the D. Everyone is sick of our roster and is crying for everyone to be dealt regardless of talent and he was trying to see if that sentiment went all the way to the top here. He obviously air balled shooting for Stuckey. Perhaps he missed the anointing.
     
  2. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    :pound:


    I think it was only family.

    At least he knew enough not to ask for Amir.
     
  3. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    C'mon bro...NO ONE is THAT crazy.
     
  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Thank you, I am guessing on the salaries.

    Provided I have some assurance that I can sign someone(s) now without crippling the cap and can afford the buy out for Plaisted then I am doing this deal.

    What other alternative out there is better than this? It's not the draft so you’re not going to trade Rip or Tay for picks unless you’re gambling on future picks. I don't see any 1 for 1 trades yielding as much as this deal either.

    This stops them from having to throw all their eggs in this years FA class yet gives them a chance to be at least a decent team for this season. It also gives them ample opportunities in 2010 where they can focus on the Joe Johnson’s of the world if they can’t sign LeBron or Wade. If they were willing to exceed the cap they could add 2 more FA’s and then resign Rondo or add the superstar and then sign Rondo.

    Plus they don’t have to trade Amir Johnson.
     
  5. Smoooth

    Smoooth First Round Draft Pick

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    Rondo, Allen for Hamilton Prince and Stuck? This isn't NBA live Danny.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Billups for Iverson? lol

    You have to look at this as a salary dumping move if the Pistons considered it.

    As an aside, does anyone think Joe has any credibility when Rip or Tay stop by his office to ask about trade rumours, and he tells them if anything is going on, he will keep the informed, given what happened to BupBup?

    Without being too silly, I think we need to think about this deal, and start looking forward to the FA class of 2011.
     
  7. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    It would be 2010 not 11, right? I think they got to do this unless they have 2 trades lined up where they're not giving up players. Tyson Chandler isn't going to make a difference on this team. This trade gives them the possibility of adding 4 good players over the next 2 years.

    Would anyone root for the Celtics if this trade went through? Will the Pistons pay to relocate Tay and Rip's families to Boston so Dumars can claim he's sending them home?
     
  8. albo23

    albo23 Second Round Draft Pick

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    If we did this trade, wouldn't be like...

    Sheed - $14
    A.I. - $21
    Allen - $20
    Brown - $4
    Amir - $3.6
    Hermman - $2
    Bynum and Sharpe - $1.5
    ------------------------------------

    $66.1 Million Dollars under the Cap?
     
  9. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    There's a whole different dimension to the story and headline "Celtic Collapse".

    It's a reference to the way, the strategy, used by Ainge to win his championship. It's a question about what kind of organization do you want to build. What kind of fans do you want to attract. What kind of legacy do you want to deliver.

    Ainge built a great ADD team (read; attention deficit disorder). Like a crow gathering shiny objects he swooped in and built a single championship winning team for a fan and media market whose loyalty arrives and vanishes in 60 second bursts.
    Their fan base suddenly re-emerged, crawling from cracks in the floor after Ainge assembled his gunhands.

    Ainge took one of the worst teams in basketball and turned it upside down. He bought and assembled a cadre of talent from the shelves. He didn't really grow anyone or anything. The fan base went from hatred to obsession in one year. He spent money freely.

    By comparison the Pistons "grew" their team and added two components that pushed them over the top, Larry Brown and Sheed. While Ainge started with three pieces, Pierce, Rondo and Jefferson and simply purchased the rest at the starting gate. Garnett, Allen, Cassel, Posey and Eddie House.

    Is "Ainge's Angle" the future of basketball? Is it what most professional teams in major markets want? He delivered a championship with enough talent that his average coach rode the swell like a surfer. But he did deliver. The fans arrived. The media sucked on their every move like they were made of taffy. For 1 year, they were the cats azz.

    Now it's over. The hangover begins. The sell-off starts. The loyalty was to the moment and the moments gone.

    Rondo was reportedly the apple of his eye yet he seems willing to trade him off, (one year after winning it all). The youngest guy with sound upside and he's on the market. I don't see any dignity in Ainge.

    The question raised is, as fans, is there some joy found in working through the withering years? The years of building and re-building? Can you find and deliver real substantial loyalty to your organization by growing instead of buying the big gears? Is it worth it?

    In this world of immediate gratification is there room for doing it the old way? Can you take two steps forward, then one back and still retain your being?

    Long before this fine forum emerged many of us in here debated the game and team at the old det.news site. The Pistons teams we debated weren't great, but they had heart and we watched it beat louder and louder until they won it all. We carped and moaned along the way (some more than others) but we remained loyal to the greater cause. The bigger picture.

    Our payoff was a long run of greatness and goodness. We got half a dozen years of standing at or near the top of the mountain.

    That isn't the route that Ainge took. The Celtic route was famine and feast. It delivered a championship but not greatness. It delivered a fan base but not goodness.

    That doesn't make it wrong, just different.

    Is that what some of us in here would prefer? Win it all at any cost and let tomorrow take care of itself? Build it or buy it? Grow'em or throw'em?

    Personally, when I read about Rondo's inclusion in the alleged offer I felt a little depressed. I'd like to see him paired with Stuckey. I think they'd make a really tough tandem. I didn't like the deal as offered.

    But I feel a little sorry for the vast legacy of the old Celtics organization.
    I think Ainge has prostituted it for momentary accolades. He's gonna be a tough GM for a long time cause he's heartless. He cheapened their long legacy and reduced his fan base to ADD sufferers.

    Good thing Boston has so many to draw from eh....
     
  10. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Probably a great deal from Joe's perspective as well (Yes, i'm extremely annoyed with him and have been for some time and i am also aware it was rejected), but propbably because he wants to wait until 3 games into the season to make this move.
     
  11. Buckeyes#1

    Buckeyes#1 First Round Draft Pick

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    I think Boston has at least one more ring in them if they hold their team together, provided everyone stays healthy of course. Cleveland was exposed this year. They are a one man band. They ain't going anywhere.
     
  12. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    LOL @ Amir getting traded!
     
  13. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Like the guy said, it was a probe by a lieutenant that never even made it to JD.
     
  14. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Exactly. It was not meant for the Pistons.
     
  15. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Classic :p_welldone: :thumb[1]:
     
  16. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Am I the only one who thinks an Allen/Rondo back court would be better than what the Pistons had last year?

    What are they gaining by keeping Tay, Rip and Stuckey? Ray Allen had a better year last year than any of these guys. This rumor has gotten me excited.

    Allen would instantly become the best 3 pt shooter on the team even if they signed Gordon.

    Allen is better off the dribble than Rip or Tay and probably Stuckey.

    Allen is not a midget.

    Rondo despite lacking Stuckey's amazing physical traits is better off the dribble and manages to hit a lay-up without knocking into every defender on the floor.

    Rondo won't get blocked on half his shots.

    Rondo is probably a better shooter and is a way better rebounder and defender.

    The Pistons could have as much if not more cap room next year despite what they could add this year.
     
  17. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Logical and completely out-of-line.
     
  18. theWORM

    theWORM First Round Draft Pick

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    No Ernie. Rondo, who I think is the real deal, and Shuttleworth's expiring contract, sound good to me too. Although the price supposedly being asked is steep.
     
  19. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    here's my take on the trade:

    stuckey for rondo? i know that a lot of people are in love with rondo at the moment, but if you asked 10 nba execs who would be the better player in 5 yrs, i bet that it'd be split.

    rip for allen? rip didnt star in a spike lee movie, but he's like 4 yrs younger, and he's more productive.

    throwing in tayshaun prince on top of these two exchanges in which its unclear that we've gotten any better?

    makes a lot of sense. the only way it COULD make sense would be as an EXTREME salary dump. but dumars has said time and time again that he wants to start contending right away.
     
  20. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The same strategy got the Lakers to the finals in '04. Clearly it can work, but you need to bring in guys who are really hungry like KG not just those who say they're hungry like Malone or Payton. But of course, your point isn't whether it can work, but whether it's the way you want to play.

    Certainly everything Stern has done in his tenure has been towards promoting building teams from within - the way the cap is structured provides an advantage to teams who hold onto players. He has always talked about building long term fan bases through longer player tenures.

    For me as a fan the building approach seems more fun than the gunslinger approach, but then I'd probably also be cheering if the Pistons brought in a couple of short term ringers and made a run next year. Maybe I'm just cheap.

    I wonder though what impact a possible decline in the salary cap would have. In the short term a decline would encourage a lot of salary dumping, but I'm not sure what the impact of several declines in a row would be. Would teams be more likely to move guys faster, to give them less of a chance to perform?
     

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