Change in Concept?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by max, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. max

    max All-Star

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    One thing I have noticed is that whenever a potential front court player is brought up who can avg more than 14 PPG he is shot down for not playing enough D or not being tough enough.

    Why is it that we always tend to want to do things the hard way? What I mean by that is we have 3 titles as a franchise and after every run they ( being the league ) changed the rules on us to take away a lot of what we were doing defensively. If you look around there are other ways to win.

    Plus we seem to forget how easy it was to win on those nights where Sheed would go inside and give us 20+ points. the 04-06 teams were nearly unbeatable when we had that kind of presence.

    Is it about time to loosen up our criteria on what a Piston player should be and be open to other formulas for winning? Like getting a high profile scorer or someone who can live in the paint and give us that?

    Things are going to change whether we like it or not. How open are you to trying more conventional approaches rather than the old Piston way of doing things. Or is that why you became a fan?
  2. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yea, when you watch Flip Murray dominating a playoff game against the Miami Heat, you have to scratch your head a little bit...
  3. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    That's why I figured LeBron would be a good addition....
  4. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I have no problem bringing in a dominant player that doesn't fit the Piston "criteria".

    Problem is the players being mentioned are not.

    The reason i focus on things like Boozer's defense is b/c his impact is not enough to compensate for it.

    Pre knee-surgery Amare is the type of player that you say f it, he's a machine, who cares if he can play D or not. He'll learn.

    We need talent, but at the right price. Throwing a majority our money at a Boozer,Gordon,Bosh etc. or having a team of role players that Joe has been bringing in will both give you the same result; mediocrity.

    We need luck at this point b/c Joe seems to be losing a few marbles.
  5. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Corliss was not a good defender - yet without him for a few key games, no title. What Corliss did so well, go inside, was priceless.

    Jon Barry was a pretty poor defender, for the most part, though he had some things he could do well like square up in front of someone. But for sure, his ball handling ability, and that deadly 3 of his, made him nice to have around.

    And the winner: The absolute worst defender we had, for his position played anyway - that helped our offense so much it did not matter - The Teacher.
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The Teacher was a lot like Corliss in his prime. Obviously better, but the same sort of tough inside cover.
  7. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Let us call it heart. Roles and responsibility change, but the approach does not.

    It is a lonely hunter.

    It might seem we all react to a learned collective human behavior which is opposed to the instinctive approach.

    The real coaching duties are obvious pathways in dancing toward the common area of internal strength.

    Learned similarities are learned strengths. This is the culture of the team.

    Leadership within associations vary within the nature of the interest to be organized.

    Economic interest have an extreme bias. They unbalance main considerations and leadership serves the singular instead of the whole.

    If JD can not understand the difference between accumulation of pieces and how they ultimately try to fit as a whole, then we are in for a repeat of isolated simplifiers reacting against complicated wholes.
  8. max

    max All-Star

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    Those guys sure made things exciting. Throw in another porous defender in Damon Jones and somehow it made up the best bench in the league at the time.

    I guess I don't want some no stats boring defensive guy who shoots 35%. Now Ben Wallace was exciting because of all the rebounds and blocks.

    Give me players that I can get excited about again. I am sick of talking about how bad our D was after losing a game like 85-80 or so.
  9. NTC

    NTC First Round Draft Pick

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    I want a Dwight Howard / Al Jefferson type guy in the post, some one who can bang, some one who can score, and most of all, some one who can play some freakin' defense.

    We got a nice prospect guard with Stuckey, lets get a big man to compliment him.
  10. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Ben Gordan would certainly provide the change - a scorer who can't spell defense even with the crowd holding up big letters.

    Anyway, it will take a full blow up of the team before it can be adjusted to living with a 25+ PPG scorer. They've shown pretty clearly this year that kind of adjustment is well beyond the current roster.
  11. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Somebody who can consistently draw the foul. Someone who is not allergic to paint.
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Can we quit acting like teams that score in the paint are getting these points from big men posting up? Big men who post in the paint get called for 3 second violations. (See Brown, Kwame)

    Teams that score big in the paint get these points from their 1, 2 or 3 spots. Big men that dunk in the paint catch open passes off of penetration. Even Sheed was dunking earlier this year when AI first arrived.

    The Cavs bigs either shot jumpers or got dunks from LeBron. Ditto for BOS with Rondo and Pierce. They did not sit there and post the Pistons to death.

    I admit I am kind of locked in on 2 way 6'11 + big men, but who is the last team that won without them?
  14. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Damon Jones was indeed a poor defender as far as squaring up on his guy and not letting him to the basket easily. However, he picked up the opposing point early, did fine on defensive rotations, and even had a knack for showing big inside. I particulary liked the way he could double a guy, and knew exactly when to scramble back to his own guy when the ball got passed away from the guy doubled.

    So Damon does fit in this category, poor on D, good on O. But not real well. One glaring weakness, made up a lot for by hustle and determination and other good skills. On offense, he hit those threes. Two of every 3 shots he took was a three. He also worked very well with Jon Barry in getting the ball to Corliss. If the opposing team had one angle blocked, Jon and Damon knew how to position themselves, and swing the ball back and forth between them, to find that angle and get the ball to Corliss. Pretty slick actually, and one of the things that made that 2nd unit so special.
  16. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    We need talent, but at the right price. Throwing a majority our money at a Boozer,Gordon,Bosh etc. or having a team of role players that Joe has been bringing in will both give you the same result; mediocrity.[quote LP26]
    -
    ECF is not mediocore.
  17. max

    max All-Star

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    Plus they had a good system in place and were able to create a lot of turnovers which lead to lot of the fast breaks that they made so exciting.

    Clearly a case of the sum being greater than each player.
  18. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Wow Max, you are so on target with your post. I just finished reading an article about the Pistons needing to obtain at least 1 or 2 three point threats and someone who can consistently score in the post. It also went on to talk about the pistons is in the love with the mid range jump shots that is why teams are able to defend the pistons so well. We did not change with the times, as a result, we were relatively easy to scout because we only had one bed and butter move and that was the mid range. It was only a matter of time before teams realized how to slow down hamilton.
  19. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    We can't just go out and get 4-5 or more new players through FA and/Draft just for the sake of getting good players.

    At this point, we need to build a team. This means making sure the chemistry is right, we add the right complimentary players, and all of them have the same work ethic.

    A few years ago, Joe put a team together, not just thrown together pieces, but he was selective in what players he signed.

    All of these players shared/had something in common, they had moved around the league and were pretty much not playing up to their potential.

    J
  20. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Team needs to be hungry also...

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