Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Zoso, Sep 26, 2005.
lol at your icons!
i only point out europe because of darko's limited minutes in the nba to show defensive skills. just look at the atlanta game where darko got regular minutes. he came up with some blocks, rebounds and points and assists. fouls could be a lack of respect from the whistles. the only place darko has got regular run is in europe. at least i've looked at darko play somewhere before i speak on him. this writer clearly hasn't seen darko play much.
we haven't seen enough of darko playing in the association to say whether he's a good or bad defensive player. we can only look at glimpses of him. we have to look at his potential from other places like summer league and over in europe. you'll change your tune this year when the preseason starts.
ginobli is a fine player. he's won in europe, the olympics and the nba. do the spurs fan really need to boost his rep???
Yeah, I understood what you were saying and why you were bringing it up. I don't agree that the short little answer that Rosen (and I'm no big Rosen fan) wrote shows that he "clearly didn't" see Darko play.
Of course I remember the Atl game. Piston boards across the web were gitty with the anticipation that Darko might get some real run and then to see him start and perform well felt great. I also remember that Atl was starting half (or more) of its bench or even 3rd stringers and had almost no reason to play and the game was over before it started.
His one on one D can be ok at times in the NBA (Davia) but he's also been handed his hat by lesser talents (against Washington earlier that same month) and hasn't been able to box out a hat rack many times.
I don't need to change my tune. I want to the kid to do well just like any other Piston fan. But to say that his defense isn't concern because of one Euro tourny and his ability to block shots (which I admit Davia) during a small frame of reference while dismissing the fact that the kid draws fouls and lets up easy baskets at a very high rate in that same reference frame is myopic.
As for Ginobili and Spurs fans: Of course they don't need to talk him up using his International success and I am sure plenty of them don't at all, but some definately do, and its just as irrelevant as Darko's Euro Championship stats.
don't diminish what darko did just because it was atlanta. don't diminish what he did just because it's in europe. if nothing darko does is sufficient unless he does it against the nba elite. wait until he plays against the nba elite to have an opinion one way or the other.
you are talking about garbage time darko which is a different animal altogether. during meaningful minutes nobody has really handed darko his hat. darko just simply tries to get garbage time over he doesn't give his all. he just tries to get out of it without getting hurt.
i think you will be changing your tune once the season starts. you say you want darko to succeed but you seem to have a very negative view of him. nothing he does is good enough. darko against atlanta is 3rd string on 3rd string. who exactly did atlanta have on thier squad that didn't play?? just remember which side of the fence you were on. i will remember. doubter
"his selfishness might be a result of trying to cram a week's worth of shots into whatever scarce daylight he did receive under Larry Brown."
From what I have seen so far (mainly in SL) one of Darko's major problems has been his selflessness. Has been reluctant to shoot and contented himself with setting screens and passing to others. It could have had something to do with his lack of confidence.
^ I would agree with that.
Will you win a prize when he acheives and you have faithfully waved his flag from day one till his enshrinement in the HOF? Will he call you down from the stands for your unwaivering confidence and hold you up before me and all the other "doubters" as you wag your finger at us as and hold your nose away from the stench of our misery?
Think of me what you will (I would expect somewhat poorly after that little bit of fun I just had).
Yes, I am talking about garbage time Darko because that is what we've seen the most in the only arena in which I care about what Darko does. I don't care about how he cooks, or cleans, or drinks, or dresses, or plays checkers. In the time he's played in the NBA, its been a mixed bag and generally tilted towards the poorer side. I'm also not diminishing "what darko did" by placing it in context. "Who exactly did Atlanta have on their squad that didn't play?" Well, Im sure Al Harrington didn't play as I remember he sat out the last couple of weeks of the season. Atl is already weak at the 4-5 as it is and I don't recall Gugliotta playing much if at all (if I recall correctly). Is that a bad thing? No, its just how it happened. Like I said, the production from Darko in that game felt great to watch and I was as happy to see him do well.
As for "not being sufficient", I'm not even sure what you mean by this. So far, he's not a productive member of the team. If THAT is sufficient for you, sweet. I for one don't usually think highly of guys who don't help the team win. Do I think he's a loser? Of course not. Do I think he's gotten a fair shake? Not at all. Do I think what he's shown in venues outside of the NBA is sufficient for being certain that he will be good if given playing time? Unfortunately no. There are plenty of guys who have shown sparks in different ways and haven't been able to create careers out of those sparks. We will have to wait and see.
Sorry I haven't penciled him in as a sure thing yet. If you have, great. I guess you have a firmer grip on "what side of the fence" you are on then I do.
I don't like to sit on fences anymore. It hurts my tooshie.
nope. i don't win a prize but what do you win by shooting venom at a guy that has already had enough things thrown in his way?? i just think you are trying to straddle the fence. either you think he's not good or you think he is. if you don't have enough evidence say that. but you didn't do that you made it clear that you think he isn't good. but you try to cover your tracks by saying we will see.
i know the type root for whichever side is winning. you probably switched teams in the finals at least 4 times.
i don't think you placed what darko did in context. you painted it in a way that was convenient for you. darko played against nba talent in europe, summer league, and atlanta. if he can't get credit for good play don't down him for bad play. darko didn't help us win last year but he could have which was clearly shown to me over the summer in europe. clearly shown to chauncey in practice. will be clearly shown to the rest of the league this year.
lol @ your last post.
I agree. I think we all just need to wait and see what happens. I don't believe any of us can know what we have in Darko yet.
We will learn more as the season progresses. Darko will be great, a bust, or something in between in the next couple of years. No matter what, whoever happened to guess correctly is going to act like they KNEW it all along. This I DO know.
I'll give them credit for making a good educated guess based on what they have seen. Or I'll give them credit for making a totally lucky guess. But I personally won't give anyone credit for their great insight into spotting NBA talent based on what Darko has shown so far. I don't think it's possible to know from what we have seen. That's just me though.
I really hope the kid does great. I've seen some encouraging signs lately.
count me in as one of the people that knew it all along. we have seen enough to know he has potential to be a big time player in this league. just needs the playing time. we will all see soon enough the preseason is almost here.
[Edit: It seems I'm a bit behind the convo, so I'll place a quote to reflect the post I was responding to.]
Well, I'm glad you know me so well from my 7 posts on this board, or is it just from my 3 or so in this thread?
If you want to think I was "shooting venom" at Darko, then continue to hold that misconception. My original post said that his Euro Championship stats aren't worth one game in the NBA and so far in NBA time he's more likely to pick up a foul then a block, rebound, or steal. Man, that is harsh. I'm sure he's reeling from all that.
Exactly how long am I allowed to deliberate before I decide if someone is good or not? Are 50 some odd minutes of playing time too long to wait to make that decision? Should I have already made up my mind about a guy before he's come into the league or played a contributing role on a team? I just want to know the rules of the "Don't Be a Fence Sitter" game.
If I wanted to paint Darko poorly I could have used any of a number of performances he's given in his two seasons. Just because the Atl game isn't the shining beacon of proof you want to see it as, doesn't mean I jilted the picture.
As for this statement: "if he can't get credit for good play don't down him for bad play." Now I don't believe I have been overly "downing" him, especially when you consider the many past performances I could use if I wanted to do such a thing. However, have you been standing by your own rule? You've clearly been giving him credit for his good play but you seem to dismiss anything else as him being "a different animal in garbage time" or like statements. I'm not sure what kind of definition you want to give to your "down him for bad play" phrase but it doesn't sound to me like you are allowing the "downing" of him for his poor performances.
I'm simply going to dismiss your bandwagoner comments, as the joke of an accusation that they are.
This is getting more drama than a Spanish opera on prime time. Where did I left the pop corn?
Right. He has shown potential. If he didn't show great potential Dumars never would have drafted him at the number two spot. The problem is, as you know, many kids with potential just don't pan out.
He had an excellent game against the team with the worst record in the NBA at the end of the season. He also showed some promise this summer. He deserves a chance to show what he can do.
Beyond that, how can we say he will be a great or even a good player in the NBA? It's all encouraging stuff, but I just can't make the jump to saying he is a top notch NBA quality player. I need to see him perform consistently on a high level in the NBA before I can do that. Anyone can have one good game. I don't see enough facts on the table to confidently say that he will succeed at this point. I don't see how anyone can.
Potential is a big maybe. It tells me that someone has enough talent or strengths to succeed at something. It doesn't mean they will.
This thread is going to get Roscoed pretty soon.
there's always hope.
Speak for yourself. I'm still waiting for a Yinka Dare or Shawn Bradley comeback.. It could happen. ;)
lmao. And I thought I was the only one who still had faith in them.
Wanna join my "bring back Chuck Nevitt and give him one more chance fan club?"
But only if I'm allowed to wear my throwback Sam Bowie jersey.
your posts have a negative tone to them. no darko doesn't care what you think about him. but that doesn't mean your statements weren't negative. so far in the nba you don't know what you are talking about. you have no stats to back up what you are saying. you are just throwing out info with the purpose of saying something negative towards darko.
you can wait however long you want. but by posting on the subject you have picked a side. your posts are obviously against darko. you downplay anything he does. if you are a fence sitter sit on the fence. you want to debate pick a side.
nope. you may not know me but i accept it when darko plays bad. i also have watched enough darko to know the times when he will play bad. he plays good during meaningful minutes he plays bad during garbage time. lb knew this also and made sure darko was in only for garbage time. i don't believe i have been overly making darko into something he isn't. you can down darko all you want for his bad performances. he's effectively a rookie he will have up and down games. i expect it but i'm sure darko has the tools. i'm sure he will contribute this year. i have picked a side. the darko bandwagon is closed after preseason. make sure you jump on before it's too late.
It's called benefit of the doubt, which is defind as: A favorable judgment granted in the absence of full evidence. You could also call it optimism or possibly faith. Personally, my gut tells me Darko will be a good player. I have a lot of confidence in Darko's abilility based on what I have seen, but also the judgement of Joe Dumars, Chauncey Billups and Ben Wallace who all speak highly of him and have seen much more than I.
There is nothing wrong with holding your opinion until Darko proves himself, and ultimately no one can predict how good he will be. However, in my opinion he has shown enough to put away all that BUST nonsense.
how many people thought Kenny Anderson would be the man based on previous performances in college...or Danny Manning? Rumeal Robinson? How many people thought Shawn Kemp after his impressive performance in the NBA finals would pick up a 100 pounds and Oliver Miller himself out of the league? Anyone predict that Grant Hill would spend most of his career nursing an injury? Anyone predict that the Janitor, Brian Cardinal, would work his way to getting a good contract after his stint with the Pistons in those big @ss knee pads and receding hair line as a rookie.
Do we have a reason to doubt Darko? Sure.
But if anything, history has shown us that it is very difficult to predict the future of a player in this league based on previous basketball experience outside of NBA proffesional competition. Greatness is going to take some time. Darko still has alot to prove. Hell, he still needs to prove that he is NBA caliber let alone a future star. His stint in Europe just shows he has potential. My vote is that he will succeed, but that is mostly because I want him to so badly. We really won't be able to critique his game until we see him play some meaningful minutes in the league against its elite. The European league footage looks very promising. His summer league play didn't. He made Chris Kaman look like the second coming of Hakeem Olajuwan. The NBA game is faster, quicker, and more physical than any other proffesional b-ball league. I think after the first 10 games of the regular season it will finally start to become more apparent what we have in our 2nd overall draft pick assuming he gets some run. I don't think we have a "Charko Demboford" on our hands, but hell absolutely ANYTHING is possible.
I will continue to "yap it up" for Darko and support the dude just like everyone else that yearns for him to succeed...but if he doesn't show any promise this year..... I find it unlikely that he ever will.
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