Home Chicago Bulls Wednesday, November 27, 2013

Discussion in 'November 2013' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    As I explained earlier we need to move a big to the bench and get Smith at the 4. I suggested Moose start sitting.

    Chicago doesn't want Stuckey. They don't need a 2 guard. I'd be happy to interchange him with CV though. Either way we lose a chumpster.

    People have been offering up trading Moose for Wilson Chandler. Deng is three times the player than Wilson Chandler is. He shoots better, plays better D and will happily log big minutes. Chicago will be looking to shave payroll. I'm presenting a legitimate way to do it.
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Not sure we need a 31 year old small forward if it means we have to break the big lineup up. Minutes for starter caliber players in the frontcourt are already hard to come by.

    With Jorts playing so well, and Singler filling in at the 3 not too poorly, I'd like to think we could get more in a trade.
  3. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    I suppose I am not convinced this big line up is working. I don't like Smith at the 3. Giving up Bynum, Singler and CV for one of the best 3 & D SF's in the game is not exactly an unbalanced outcome.

    We have to remember that Singler may be filling in well, but he is filling in well on a team playing poorly. Our player value isn't skyrocketing at the moment.
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok, but Deng isn't a 2, so how do you get enough minutes for Josh Smith, and Deng to validate the trade?

    I am not sure we need another player right now.
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  5. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Bulls hang on a lose in OT to the now 2-14 Jazz and a Piston win over them on Wednesday moves us up ahead of them!!!!!

    Luol Deng did drop 24 points and grab 10 boards in the OT loss. The Bulls still played great defense holding the Jazz to 89 points in an OT game.

    With that being said, when we shoot it has to drop in order for us to beat them.
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  6. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Pistons by 17.
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  7. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    To be entirely honest, I don't know. But if you can turn that kind of trade, you really have to make it - its a huge talent upgrade. Afterwards, I would probably try and turn Greg Monroe into something else. Putting Josh Smith at the 4 is more important than Monroe loosing a few minutes.
  8. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    We are at the dawn of a new era. The rays of promise are slowly melting away the entrenched frost of despair and frustration. A new day is coming, a new winner. Gargoyles of yesteryear with broken wings cannot, and will not, survive the inevitable return of the rightful heir to the Central Division throne.

    Pistons by 14.
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    BIG GAME TONIGHT!
  10. Mark V

    Mark V Bench Warmer

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    I just noticed that they're not airing it until 2am! I cried a little when I saw it :'(
  11. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    What the heck happen? Is what all Piston fans are saying??

    Once again, the Pistons fail to beat a team ahead of them in standings. This time we were blown out 99-79 as it appeared the Pistons were already thinking about if the turkey was still frozen or was it thawed out and ready for cooking.....well we were the turkeys that got cooked smoked. The Pistons scored 24 points in the second half??:confused::frusty:....the Bulls scored 25 in third quarter.

    The Bulls limped in on 4 game losing streak and were for primed for a beating, but the 14:38 minutes that Will Bynum played tonight were 14 minutes too long IMO.
    I am not blaming him for the Piston shooting woes in the second half, but he was 1-7 shooting and the offense looked ugly the two times he was in there. First to begin the second qtr when the Pistons were sporting a 6 point lead only see the Bulls run off a 8-0 lead to briefly take the lead. Once he and Singler were yanked, the Pistons managed to get back on top with a 2 point halftime lead.

    It should be noted that Bynum and Singler scored 4 points in their combined 35 minutes of play......but that more than our shooting guard KCP , who got a big 0 in the scoring column. Deng torched anyone who tried to guard him, whether it was Josh or Singler.... and some scrub by the name of Tony Snell hit three from downtown.....I am not going to blame our so call defensive wizard Pope.....but that was his man wasn't it?

    Stuckey showed up again to bailout our back court, but once again the Bigs were outplayed with Noah scoring on left handed funny hoops and forwards Deng and Piston-made-all-star TaJ Gibson combining for 50 points between them. :gaah: Did Moose bother to show up tonight? I saw the whole game and the only time I remember seeing him was crawling on the floor holding his leg after a silly foul some time in the 4th....he was yanked after that.

    All of the perceived progress that we saw this week, took a step back as the Bulls showed us how to play defense, not only contesting most shots, but nearly mugging every Piston who got the ball in the paint. I mean you could tell the difference in the defensive intensity just watching each team defending the other....

    I still love them despite my critical rants....:rant:
    At least the Wings finally get a win at the Joe tonight and hopefully the Lions can end their 2 game losing streak and their nine game Turkey day losing streak.



    Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!:chef2:
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  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    We still have a lot of work to do. This game was close until the 4th.

    We badly need a shooter on this team. Gigi can shoot, but for whatever reason, we don't play him.
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  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    No effort from the coach. Getting to be a habit for Cheeks. Bad coaching loss.

    Our starters were not the problem, except for one thing - to start the 2nd half, Pope was wide open, and he did not get the ball. We ended up with a shot clock violation instead. Hey, if the team is not going to give the ball to a wide open shooting guard, and so letting the defense pack the lane on you - change something. Instead, Cheeks chose basically to just give up the game. The same sad bench that lost our lead and got us in a hole in the first half.

    In this game, we saw Singler trying in vain to guard Deng, and JJ in vain trying to guard Gibson. And this is planned by our new leader? A plan to lose a game for sure. Let me see, just what does Singler bring to negate what we give up having him try to guard Dend. Oh, 2 points on an air ball he gathered and put back in. Anybody we had out there could have done that. Singler gives us an absolute zero on the offensive end, and no defense. Check out 82games.com. Already, the data is rolling in on Singler. Look at his negative PER differential. Totally unacceptable.

    Oh, Singler - 14 in this one. And Stuckey, who played a ton, was also minus 14 despite doing some great scoring.

    Mitchell was dressed, got a couple of minutes of garbage time. He pulled down a couple of contested rebounds - something guys like JJ (when playing out of position like tonight at power forward and getting zero rebounds) and Singler never do.

    Instead of actually using all that talent of Stuckey, we had him along side Bynum. If anyone happens to notice, Stuckey is a point guard. He can do all the scoring he does as a point guard. So what is Bynum doing out there? There is no reason.

    Datome hit a couple of shots in GT. CV played the last 4 minutes of the first half.

    We started out well enough. Jennings was dishing assists and hitting some shots. Smith was refraining from shooting outside shots - then later nailed a 3 - but only after he had done some good work nearer the basket.

    Don't be alarmed by Drums negative numbers in this one. Most of it was being a victim of playing along side Singler. No, Drummond may be good, but he is not good enough to counter the total lack of talent of Singler. (and they had Harrellson in there some of that time to make us even slower - of JJ to make us way, way too small.)

    By the time Pope took a shot in this one, the game was already getting out of hand. Again, if you are not going to let your shooting guard shoot outside shots, get a different unit in. No, I am not advocating Stuckey starting for Pope. I am advocating letting Pope shoot the ball more. Pope did have 3 steals - and I believe he was even when playing with our starters, or very close.

    Monroe only played 22 minutes I note. I guess to let defensive stalwarts like JJ and Singler play more. A bit nuts.

    Well, its unfortunate that we have a coach who will put no effort in. But its Dumars who has Singler, Bynum, JJ on the roster. On the good side. hey, Dumars has provided a roster capable of winning - but there is a huge disconnect between what is provided, and what actually get used in the games. This has been going on for many years now for the Pistons. I believe a change in GM's is the next best move, and then see if the nonsense around who plays clears up or not.
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  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    That was a bit dispiriting, the Pistons seemed lethargic.

    The Bulls must be salivating over that Bynum/C Garbage for Deng trade now c


    Sent from the new and improved Tapatalk 2.
  15. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Wow! 15 games in and that is the product? At home against the Bulls without Rose?

    I saw the second half. It was obvious quickly that that first unit was not going to score much in that 3rd quarter. A 2 point half time lead was gone and a deficit growing. No offense from the starters. Down to Monroe first, nothing. Balls are fumbled away. Passes are thrown away. I am yelling sub before the lead gets big. They can't score. The coach waited and waited. The first unit cannot afford a non-scorer (Pope) much of the time. Not when the opposing defense tightens up. And, going to Monroe has not been the answer. And Jennings dribbling has not been the answer. And Josh cannot bail the unit out.

    The Piston offense is a series of one on ones. Stuckey, Josh, Monroe, Bynum or Jennings dribbling. Meanwhile, the teams that have played together like Atlanta and the Bulls shoot off screens, pass the ball with not much dribbling, send cutters to the hoop. The Piston defense has been unable to handle these types of efficient offenses.

    So the problem is both offense and defense. Is it personnel? Some. The Pistons don't have the shooters most teams have. Is it youth? With Andre yes. With Pope, yes. But Pope is starting because there is no shooter in that spot. Is it coaching, yes. The Pistons have no system on offense and very little system in place on defense.

    At this point, throwing the ball into Andre is a better option that most of what the Pistons have been doing when the opposing defense tightens and that said even with Andre's abysmal free throw shooting.

    Let's see if the Piston defense can handle the Lakers.

    6-9. 20 games approaching. Then 30. Then some trades???
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  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Our starters were outscored 72-40 and all 5 of them were outscored by their counterpart. If you don't consider that a problem, then I think you may be expecting a little too much from the reserves. Our best player was -20 and we lost by 20.

    Stuckey was pretty good again. I'm pretty much celebrating the guy's entire catalog at this point. 25 points on 16 shot attempts (with at least 2 of them being desperation chucks at the end of quarters). About 1.7 ppp excluding the heaves.

    As far as blaming nerdy looking guys with good fundamentals, let's all realize that Kyle Singler is by far the +/- leader on the team so far this year. Going into tonight's game, the Pistons have outscored opponents 666 to 639 with him on the court and have played losing basketball without him to the tune of 725 to 761. Personally, I prefer winning basketball to losing basketball... but that's without factoring in my other agendas. There are only 2 real differences when he's on vs off. 1) when he's on, we hold the opponent to much lower FG% than when he's off (5% lower eFG). My theory is that because it is proven that he covers more ground per minute than any other player on the team, that his ability to cover the perimeter results in less open looks for the other team vs when we have Josh Smith trying to stay with SFs. 2) when he's on, we get about 10 more FT attempts and 8 more FT makes per 48 minutes while the opponents' FT rates don't change. KS is a big part of that as he's drawing fouls at a really high rate this year.

    2nd on the team in +/- at this point is KCPope.


    As Roscoe mentioned, we were right in the game until the massive run that the Bulls went on. It was 75-80 with 8:39 left in the game. Bynum was taken out after it was 75-82. Fast forward a few minutes and the score was 75-99 with 1:31 left in the game. 19-0 run in the 4th quarter.

    During the run, here was our offensive possessions:
    1) Jerebko missed J
    2) Bynum missed J (JJ and WB pulled)
    3) Jennings missed J
    4) Monroe missed 2 FTs
    5) Pope missed J
    6) Smith turnover
    7) Drummond missed shot
    8) Smith missed 3-point attempt
    9) Stuckey missed layup
    10) Smith missed 2 FTs
    11) Pope missed J
    12) Jennings missed 3-point attempt
    13) Mitchell missed 2 FTs (WB inserted back in)
    14) Bynum missed J

    So, during this 7 minute stretch, we were 0-10 from the field and 0-6 from the FT line. Only 1 turnover. Our 3-point chucking was held in check.

    It was just solid defense by the Bulls when they turned on their switch.
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  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The Pistons are 6-9. Here are the 6 wins:

    Home vs. Washington (7-8)
    Home vs. Boston (6-11)
    Away vs. Sacramento (4-9)
    Home vs. New York (3-10)
    Away vs. Brooklyn (4-11)
    Home vs. Milwaukee (2-12)

    Detroit has shown no indication it is ready to be a playoff team.

    On the bright side, outside of Miami and Indiana, the Eastern Conference is really bad. Any team that can dress 5 players has a shot at the playoffs.
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  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yes that is true. 15 games into the season and not a single quality win. Only 1 win against a team with more wins than us and that team even has a losing record.

    If we make the playoffs, then I think it's safe to say that the NBA lets too many teams into the post season. It just increases the odds of Lebron turning an ankle in the first round meaningless scrimmages and screwing up the entire production.
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  19. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Its still early ..only 15 games in....so still time to do an experimental swap out of Bynum and Singler with Siva and Gigi/CV. I know it's stretch and a test, but Bynum and Singler played a combined 7 minutes on Monday and we won that game in a blowout. Granted, the Nets and Bulls are two different teams, but there is no way we should have lost tonights game by 20 points. Even if we were not scoring, they went through Singler as if he was sitting on the bench. Funny how we saw it and the Bulls saw it, but the coaches didn't see it. :confused:

    I agree with you Lee on Mitchell. How much worse can he be than the other rookie Pope? Pope is getting PT based on his defensive ability and missing shots. Mitchel's D can't be that bad can it? lt appears that he can clean up around the hoop with an alley oop catch and even fight for an offensive board if out there, but we have only seen him in 3 or 4 GT opportunities.
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  20. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    As I review that run above, the bad was that we missed 6 FT's and no one was defending those three guys... The other thing > 8 missed jumpers, one missed layup and one missed five footer by Drummond. Have to assume that at least 2 of the guys that were fouled were going to the hoop and that is why they went to the line, but when a team starts to lose it, they begin to rely on the J instead of taking it to the rim and we will all agree that we don't have any real shooters on the team....from the field ...so why so many jumpers?? or from the line it appears...9/19

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