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Home Cleveland Cavaliers Wednesday, February 12, 2014

Discussion in 'February 2014' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    vs Cleveland Cavaliers

    Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 7:30 PM Eastern


    Palace of Auburn Hills, Detroit, MI

    LOCAL TV: FS Detroit
    NATIONAL TV:

    RADIO: 97.1 FM The Ticket

    GO PISTONS!
     
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Cleveland, one of the teams I follow on an every game basis. Here is a preview of some of the matchups:

    Starting at center, they have a veteran center, Who we call Mop Head round these parts, going up against Drums. First, Mop Head does not look to score a whole lot, which negates a lot of what Drummond provides. With Drummond out there with nobody to guard though, it should free him up to do a lot of help out D. And Drums should be able to score on this guy. Advantage us, by a lot, but do not underestimate Mop Head. He can score, even though it is not his usual mode, and he can rebound and defend pretty well.

    At power forward, we got a very gifted postup guy in Monroe. Tristan Thompson will oppose him, and not look to score all that much. We should win this matchup.

    Then you got Smith vs. Deng, two very similar players really. Larger small forwards, both better inside vs. out. But do not make the mistake of not guarding Deng on his outside shot. If you challenge hard, he will miss though. Advantage us as Smith is the stronger player.

    Front line in all, totally in our favor. Our front line should heavily outscore theirs, and outrebound them by a long shot.

    At starting point, we got Jennings, they got Irving. Both are very young, talented point guards. Jennings might not be the greatest defender, but speed is the number one thing you need to check Irving and Jennings does have that. Due to just a bit more experience, I am giving us the nod on this matchup even though Irving is the more talented player.

    Shooting guard. Right now, that is Jack. Vs. Singler for us. Total advantage to Cleveland here. Jack is a very experienced shooting guard with loads of talent. Singler will not be able to follow him, at all, and Singler will find no advantage from his better height against this very experienced defender.

    In all, their starting backcourt beats ours by a lot. With two points starting for them, they will have the advantage in ball handling. And they will have a large advantage on outside shooting.

    Now the bench. First, we are using Singler as our primary backup small forward. They have Bennett coming in now off the bench, and he is not the joke from a month ago. Bennett is playing regular minutes now, getting very comfortable. He is a big strong player with tons of skill. He can shoot the midranger, and score readily in the post. Total advantage to Cleveland. And PS, the other backup small forward, Pope, is not going to able to contain a player the size and power of Bennent one little bit.

    Backup point. Bynum, vs. either of Jack or Irving staying over. Total advantage to Cleveland. Cleveland will have an actual point guard on the floor at all times. We will not.

    Backup shooting guard. Here, two very similar players go against each other in Stuckey and Waiters.Frankly, you can't give either player the advantage since either could have a really bad, or a really good night. However, from what I have seen of Stuckey, when their is a question of who is going to win a matchup between him and someone else, Stuckey meets the challenge, so I am going to say Stuckey beats Waiters tonight.

    In all, at backup guard, we lose the battle, since we will be trying in vain to play with no point guard to keep things organized for us out there.

    Backup center for us? Who knows. We currently do not use one. Instead, we move up guards to our front line. They use Tyler Zeller, who is nothing to write home about, but better than our choice. Advantage Cleveland. Unless our new coach decides to fix this.

    Power forward. Neither team has a designated person for that. Guys like Gee play some, to help fill in that gap for them. For us, again, we are now, with Harrellson injured, putting guards up on the front line. JJ has played there though, the last game at least, even though he does not have the size for power forward.

    In all for the bench front lines, especially if Bennentt shows any of what he showed last game for them, just missing a 20/10 game, advantage Cleveland.

    In all, our starters should slaughter them, but our bench could easily give it all back up. Cleveland is a young team feeling good, on a three game winning streak. Playing hard will not do it, as they will play every bit as hard. We got to play smart. Lets see what the new coach comes up with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  3. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Hold on, you're are saying Singler is 6 beers short of a six pack against Jarrett Jack, who looks like the filling in BoT's bucket this year, and that Kyrie 'ROTY, All star PG' is worse than Brandon Jennings?

    That is absurd.

    Irving isn't just more talented, he is producing at a much higher level than Jennings, a completely different level. He is a bad defender, but Jennings will not at all be able to contain him either. He shoots better, makes better passes, knows how to use a PnR.

    On the other hand, Jarrett Jack can't shoot this year, has lost his dribble, and has no range. Singler is putting up far better number on both ends of the court.
     
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  4. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    No, not six, but 7.

    We already whooped Cleveland not too long ago, and the Jennings / Irving matchup certainly did not hurt us.

    Jack has been coming off the bench to this point of the year. Do not underestimate him.
     
  5. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Team Captain 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    YEEEESSS!
    JLo saying all the right things. When Jorts returns, we will have better balance in the front court.
     
  6. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Jack hasn't looked good since his playoff run for GSW. Even then he was hardly a tide turner. I'm sorry, but he is not better than Singler.

    Oh our previous game against them? Yeah, sure lets talk about it. The game where Kyrie shot 50% and went for 21/7. Yeah, he only scored a bit over 20% of their points. Jarrett Jack? He played 20 minutes, went 0-6, 1 assist to go with his turnover, 2 personal fouls and a scarily good -24. Meanwhile, Singler went 4-9 (10 points) in 27 minutes along with his 8 rebounds. Oh and he was +23 for the game. Maybe ESPN mixed up the signs infront. Or not...

    Let me recap that for you. In our last meet up, Jack did absolutely nothing useful and had the worst +/- of the entire game, despite playing for less than half of it. Singler didn't play well, but at least he could hit water if he fell out of a boat. And Irving torched Jennings to the tune of 23% of the Cavs offense. Include his assists and its 38%.
     
  7. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Just when you thought a new era was upon Pistons org....Another double digit 4th quarter blown lead at the palace brings them and JLo back down to earth.

    I mentioned in chat when we didn't extend that 13 point lead in the first that we didn't want to get into a close game with Irving in the 4th.... and now you know why he is on the all star team and no Pistons are. The Cavs defense collapse on the Pistons and held them to 38 points in the second half. The 15 point third quarter did them in, but they still had a 10 point lead with 8 mins left in the 4th.

    You also know how valuable Rodney Stuckey is.....when he is healthy they are fine, but when he is not, they had no one to hit the mid range jumpers....Our starting guards were 5 for 24 and as usual nothing out of KCP and Jennings was turrible...
    too many missed three ball attempts when it wasn't needed. (4-23)

    Drummond seem to be the only Piston to play all 4 quarters. Monroe was hot in the first quarter, but also seem to disappear in the second half.

    A chance to move into the 8th spot tonight and then be ahead of Charlotte for the back-to-battle next week would have been nice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
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  8. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Team Captain 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Disappointing game besides Drummond.

    Will the Thrill gave this game away with his lust for chucking in the late third early fourth.
     
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  9. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    I am stunned at how bad the guard play was. Watch any quarter and see what has been wrong with the Pistons. Watch the guard play. Pick any quarter. That is the problem. Watch and be stunned.

    The Piston guards have invented a new shot: the air brick. They often don't hit the rim. Really, watch the tape of the game. Try Pope, try Singler, try Bynum. Jennings at least does the normal miss of hitting the rim. Try a combined 3 for 19 at three point shooting. Try 10 for 40 overall including layups. When does Jennings hit? When the ball was kicked out to him helter skelter at the shot clock. Did Jennings hit a three or s shot when the game was on the line in the 4th? He needs to show he can hit in the clutch. And Bynum single handedly brought the Cavs back from 10 down. Its the guard play.

    Does any team have a less productive set of guards? Jennings plays at the level of a guard finishing his first year. Bynum is a third tier guard who now plays major backup. Pope is developmental. Singler is developmental. This is on Dumars. Stuckey, who is productive at times, often plays out of position and is doing spot up duties. He does not spread the floor something the team needs badly.

    Management needs to get a guard, any competent guard to help THIS season--before the trade deadline. I used to think it was Monroe. I used to think it was Andre's youth. Then, it became clear--it took 40 games--and then it became clear-- it is the guard play. Watch the tape and see for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  10. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Joe should have drafted a point guard. He overrated Jennings readiness. The kid is barely out of the rookie mold. He brought in Billips. Billips has not shown anything of consequence for years. Joe signed Bynum long term a while back--Bynum is an interesting third tier guard who keep fans going a bit. So the great experiment of the big front line was not given a chance. And add to the mix, little coaching and this is the result--a below .500 team. I feel bad for Monroe and Josh and Andre who are kicking behind but find the team losing.

    The Pistons need to get a guard for THIS year to help make the playoffs. The team will not make the bottom 8. Gores does not want the draft pick anyway.
     
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  11. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Like our beloved CV...the Pistons have more than just wings in their bucket.
     
  12. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    He could have drafted Trey.....after all he did not have Jennings yet...(unless he already knew the trade was coming). I am not ready to call KCP a bust yet, because so far only about 6 of the lottery picks are showing that they deserve to be picked so high...but his defense is not making up for his offense when he is on the bench or the floor. If he hasn't found his shot after 50+ games, he won't this season.

    KCP took three shots, one air ball three and where he went straight to the rim and he blew it. Singler was missing buckets right under the hoop. No matter how many buckets Bynum makes, he gives back on the other end.....same for Singler.

    Jennings, still can't decide when to shoot and when to, whom to, how to, and where to pass the rock to.

    As bad as Billups has been, I would brought him in to settle things when it was apparent that the combo of Bynum and Jennings was waaaaaaaaaaaay off.
     
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  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Very disappointing. Coach, just like last one, does not understand that its him who lost the game. And the idea that he needs to review combinations of players? He has been with the team all year. Basically, he sat their and made excuses, completely deflecting any blame of the coaching. This was a coaching loss, pure and simple, and if the new coach does not understand that, he will not improve, and needs to replaced now, no need to wait.

    Mistake one. Starting Singler at shooting guard. Last time we played Cleveland, Pope started at shooting guard, and we not only won the game, the game was a total laugher from front to back. So why did he start Singler? Because the last coach did? The last coach, who just got fired? I think the new coach was hired to change things, not to repeat the mistakes of the last guy.

    Singler made Jack look like an absolute superstar in this game. How could a guy always be running ahead of his defender like that, on every single play. The Pistons tried in vain to cover for Singler, but they never could. At one point, just as we were going to get totally wiped away in the fourth, Drummond got his fifth foul, so Singler got moved up to small forward. Good move. Totally accidental, but a good move, as Jack was again burning us because Singler could not follow him.

    To begin the game, we were dominating them on offense, so coach apparently just turned a blind eye to all the times Jack was burning our team by getting away from Singler, and badly scrambling our defense. In the 2nd half, we were not so fortunate on offense, but Jack sure kept burning us by losing Singler.

    I will stop my rant to point out something coach did good, even though, again, it was more of an accident that anything. Singler got in foul trouble, so JJ came in - where he belongs, at small forward. JJ looks pretty darn good as part of our front line, helping out for real with rebounding and interior D. With Cheeks, he would not do this ever, since his total obsession with playing Singler meant that any threat to Singler's minutes would never be allowed like that.

    Next mistake. Playing Bynum. Again, this is a GM problem, because if Dumars did not sign him, we would not be seeing the guy out there getting totally burned. Bynum did do some nice stuff tonight on the offensive end. A couple of oops to Drums, a drive in here and there. Made a J. But he gives it back up on the defensive end. And he disorganizes the team since his scoring so often does not involve anyone else.

    Of Note, Stuckey was ill. Tried to give it a go, but was never really in the game.

    Also of note, coach made a horrid decision by removing Pope after Pope had just led a very long stretch with no scoring by the Cavs. Does he, like the guy he replaced, have an aversion to winning. When a unit is doing that good, you leave it out there.

    Drummond was truly amazing in this one, but it was against a fairly weak front line missing Mop Head. Monroe and Smith both had great stat lines. Singler did do some scoring, despite the low percentage of makes, as he did hit 8-8 at the line. Jennings stunk this one up pretty bad, but hey, it was our D that totally failed in this one. Cleveland is just not that good. Without playing Bynum and Singler in this one, Cleveland would not have been able to score many points.

    PS, remember, last time, Singler did have a good game against Cleveland. Playing as a small forward off the bench. In this one, Singler, when playing against their 2nd unit, as a small forward, did fine. But horrid against their starting small forward, and horrid against any shooting guard on Cleveland. Again, just because Cheeks started playing Singler as the player for all occasions, does not make it right. Playing Singler beyond a small, occasional role, is a losing propisiton. Personally, no way I think he belongs on the team even. Remember why Cheeks was fired. No progress. Going back to the beginning of last season and again starting Singler at shooting guard, that is not progress. That is a hopeless dead end.
     
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  14. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Yes there are rotation mistakes and guys playing out of position. Yet, after x amount of games it is our depth at guard that really is the culprit. When the starters are going good that frontline is nasty. We need shooting bad. From anywhere. 75% of those missed threes were of the wide open variety. NBA teams need those shots made at 35%. This is on Joe. Plain and simple. Every guard is playing one spot higher on the rotation then they should.
     
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  15. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    We just can't shoot from distance
     
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    What a coincidence.
     
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  17. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    This isn't on Singler.

    Lets talk about Bynum, who went for a stretch of 7 consecutive possession where he did not pass the ball a single time. Including a step back 3 pointer that glanced off the front of the rim. He has no 3 pt range, and lets not even talk about step backs. It was utterly pathetic. Of course, every other guy on the court got visibly upset because front row tickets to the Bynum show are not in high demand and never have been. That stretch of Bynum stinking it up and not playing a team sport was exactly when the tide turned against us. We stopped playing in transition because Bynum wanted to show off his sweet dribble drives, mid range fade aways, and 3pt bombing ability. Sum total of that ability - losing games.

    Lee - Singler had a bad game. He isn't a SG. But for all of this constant burning, Jack only scored 9 points. The worst defensive showing by him was getting lost on screens coming from the baseline which led to open looks from the FT line by slow help and poor rotations. Lets not pretend that Singler was the only player who gave up points.
     
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  18. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I mentioned how bad Bynum was. And Singler certainly was not the only problem on defense. Bynum was bad too. And there was the bad choice by coach, although only briefly, of trying to guard Deng with a guard. (or worse, with Singler for a play or two.) Absolutely, Singler is no shooting guard. Not even in the slightest. You have to be able to guard a shooting guard to be called one. Singler has not anywhere near the needed quickness to play shooting guard. And as far as Jack, remember, he had 8 assists. Jack's game killed us, and most of it was based on losing Singler, which meant the rest of the Pistons were scrambling to try to cover Jack for Singler. This never, ever worked. I suggest you watch the game again, as I will, and count exactly how many times this happened. I will be glad to compare notes later this weekend.
     
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  19. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Blank stare..........................................
    The bigs were gassed in the second half and absolutely stopped running and, all the movement off the ball- ceased. The poor guard play has been duly noted already.
     
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  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    What's loyer supposed to do? The last guy that benched Bynum got immediately canned.
     

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