Coach Q

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by hitafreethrow, Apr 21, 2010.

  1. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Has anyone heard or read anything about the future of Coach Q? What is the general consensus of the forumites here? Keep em or can em?
     
  2. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    joe already announced that he's back next season. The word is that as bad as the season was, that he never lost the team.
     
  3. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  4. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Some powerful and secondary things are working against following the above course. First, is the money issue and no small part. New owner, and switching again works against the judgment ability of JD's selection process. Second, the younger players will feel more relaxed and this includes the newer additions. As the team get younger, the more influence in coaching style becomes Q. Third, he lacks a certain panache of leadership qualities and JD can always find some mix in the organization when that quality is hired. Decisions will follow in early winter. Fourth, it was a very good sign for him (as previously mentioned) that he did not loose this ball club, but it did require some ass-kicking by JD.
     
  5. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    It would be wildly unfair to fire a coach after having to go through a season with the incredible amount of injuries that both knocked key guys out of the lineup, and hobbled a lot of the players who still managed to suit up and play.
     
  6. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Yeah. I don't think the Piston's brass gives a rat's behind about what is "fair", but I do think they realize it wouldn't be fair to judge Q based on this injury plagued season. I would be very surprised to see him gone. I still think he is going to be a very good coach...somewhere. At any rate, though, he is not going anywhere.
     
  7. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Yeah, the injuries were a problem this year but I don't view injuries as the MAIN problem. Even if all of our Piston guys suited up for all 82, I still don't see much more than a 6 game difference in the final record.

    I think Joe will bring Q back for another shot.
    Below the surface, I think that Joe is uttering "my bad" to Q and all other interested parties. Joe didn't give Kuester much to work with. Q inherited an unbalanced roster full of shooting guards and un-spectacular PFs and he never really had a chance this year.

    You mention "key guys" that were knocked out of the lineup.
    IMO, the Pistons didn't have any "key guys" this season. ...and that's the problem.

    I have faith that Joe (and maybe Q) will turn this thing around though.
    A lucky ping pong ball will accelerate this process.
     
  8. monrams99

    monrams99 First Round Draft Pick

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    I wonder why JOE always fire coaches?How many coaches did joe hired and fired? How about the players that he had signed such as gordon and the tweeter admin Charlie? I dont know show me the light in here!
     
  9. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Excellent post.

    However, I don't hear much explanation (never his strong suite) about some things that surprised him. I would like one little taste from his defensive palate that would describe a bitter meal that ended his club's season. Without this, for me, he continues to smile while digesting a meal of Pollyanna vinegar.
     
  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    If we get a new owner, chances are the new owner won't be silly enough to retain Q. Or Dumars. Hiring Q alone is enough reason for any new owner to fire Dumars.

    Injuries? Like Rip's, when the game was won already and Q left Rip out there in GT?

    Like losing Tay upon Tay playing his 3rd game in 4 nights to start the season with Tay playing an average of 38 minutes per game? Do not blame the madness that was Q on injuries. Q continually played to lose, right off the bat.

    No amount of injuries forced Q to play Kwame extensively to start the seaon. This was madness concocted by Q on his own. He stated that the Pistons could not win without Kwame being a big part of things. Nonsense, pure non-sense - and completely unrelated to injuries.

    Injuries? Heck, we were down three players two games before the season began - cause Q absolutely was not going to play any of our rookies.

    Injuries? Wait a moment - until we were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, Q never played a single minute of one game with a backup small forward in the game. And this despite Joe drafting 3 small forwards. Lets review. Tay started the first 3 games. His backup was a gaurd, one of Stuckey or Rip, in those 3 games. Then Tay went down, and JJ became the starting small forward. But only Stuckey was used as a backup small forward, not Summers or Daye. And when Tay finally did return - after JJ had started at small forward for a ton of games - we moved JJ to power forward, and again - never used a small forward to backup the small forward spot.

    So who needs injuries. Kuester managed to muck things up just fine all by himself.

    Indeed, when you look at things real closely - it was nothing but coaches decisions that kept putting poor teams on the floor - not the injuries. Sure we had guys injured - but we had capable players to fill the rotation. Its just that coach Q refused to ever play winning rotations, choosing rather to play guys coming off injury - or still injured guys - instead of healthy young players like Daye and Summers.

    One of the worst decisions of the season was to start using Atkins extensively, while still continuing to shut out Summers and Daye from the rotation. Although this has strong competition from Q doing things like playing Tay those first 20 games back where he was worthless, or playing Charlie V extensive minutes while his PF prevented him from doing much more than spectate out there.

    I ask you - does anyone still think CV had to play those minutes? Summers was healthy. Did Tay have to come back unable to play? JJ could have kept starting at small forward.

    Q made his decisions based on a lot of things. But one of those things never was, not for a second, how to win. His excuses were endless - and I guarantee if he does stay around - we will get to hear lots more. I hope not.
     
  11. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Thank you Lee...I also see things this way for the most part. :)
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Lee, I gotta disagree with a few things here.

    First of all, hindsight is 20/20. After the season is over, the injuries have occurred and the record is final, it is easy to judge the season a failure.

    Second, I think lots of coaches leave players in too long, particularly Rip and Tay, who are players who have dominated, and expect to dominate the minutes at their position. This is a problem that Flip and Curry had. Coaches all over the league have it with primadonna players. There are less than 5 coaches that I can think of, who can exercise a quick hook on their superstars and not lose the locker room.

    So knowing that, I have a hard time judging Q vs. Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich, Larry Brown etc. We know he is not in that class.

    Third, the injuries this year were mostly flukes. They weren't injuries one could clearly blame on fatigue, but unfortunate stuff like turned ankles and landing on someone else's foot, a ruptured disc in Tay's back.

    Fourth, guys like Prince have traditionally played heavy minutes. He and Rip are in their prime. One would expect them to play more minutes now than at any other time in their career.

    Fifth, Atkins was the 5th guard, and wouldn't have been asked to play, if 3 of the top 4 guards were not all injured at once. I don't think the coach played Atkins much more than he had to, and in the games where he did, I would argue Atkins generally played well for a 5th guard. It's an unreasonable expectation for the 5th guard to play at the same level as the 3rd guard.

    Sixth, Daye does not have an NBA body. When the team is healthy, he won't play the 2, just as Tayshaun will not play the 2. I know it is the dream of Pistons fans to see SFs playing the 2 and shooting over people, but Joe Dumars has a fascination with accumulating undersized guards, and that will prevent such a fantasy from becoming real.

    When Daye bulks up, he will find minutes at the 3 and 4. He was drafted to be a Durant type and that means playing in the frontcourt.

    Also, Daye is an atrocious ball handler.

    Seventh, Summers might not be on the team next year, and if he is, it might be as a nightly scratch. He's a Sammy Mejia type, except I liked Sammy Mejia more. He really doesn't have a niche on this team as he is a swingman, and we already have too many highly paid bodies at those positions. While he is interesting defensively, as a Ron Artest type of body, I never really was that impressed by him this year. Sometimes he played well, sometimes he looked like a smaller version of Weezy.

    Eighth, CV did not play a lot of minutes. Q really limited his minutes once the team was healthier.

    Ninth, you gotta give Q credit for playing the young guys like Jerebko. He played Jerebko over veterans, he allowed him to have bad shooting nights, and he never gave up on him. Daye may have a better shooting stroke, but JJ had a more NBA ready body, and played like his life depended on it.

    It's been said many times before, the coach cannot just play guys if they aren't earning it. The players know who does and does not deserve minutes, and playing guys when there are other guys itching to get out onto the floor is a recipe for losing the team. When healthy, I think Q fielded the most balanced lineups since LB was here. I think that when healthy, he generally managed minutes, substitutions and even matchups pretty well.

    Sure, he made some mistakes. But it is a double standard to say "play the young guys" when relatively speaking, Q is a young head coach, and also needs to develop. If it is ok to play the kids, then it is ok for Q to coach.

    Lastly, another LB assistant, Mike Woodson, had a tough time his first few years in Atlanta. The organization stuck with him. I would argue that Woody is as important to the Hawks as Josh Smith. That is a team that has only so much talent, but they play the right way. I'm looking for the same things from Q. I hope we stick with him. One year is not enough time to tell if this guy is a bad coach and certainly not a year like this.

    And again with the young talent, this team has only 2 players (Stuckey, Maxiell) it drafted since the championship 5 years ago (not counting the 3 rookies this year) still on the roster. It is one of the worst, most bare rosters in the NBA. It is amazing we won as many games as we did. Our win streak seemed like divine intervention.
     
  13. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Very nice post Rascoe. Well articulated and well reasoned. I'm with you on this. Just when I'm really wondering why we bother keeping you around, you come up with something like this.

    :winner_first_h4h:


    :goodstuff:
     
  14. max

    max All-Star

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    If you take away the injuries and the last 20 games or so where the best players were not necessarily on the court due to trying to improve the draft spot and what do you have? I say probably an extra 10 wins or so.

    So with all that aside I think we would have been looking at about a 37-40 win team which is about all one can expect on a team with talented wing players and nothing else.

    I see Q as an average coach so far. Where he will keep his job is where Curry failed and that is in getting respect from the players. He had to take a lot of grief from Rip and Tay when he limited their mins later on. Just too bad he could not have done it sooner. We were 11-12 at one point before Rip and Tay came back at full mins instead of being integrated back in.

    In my opinion Q did improve as the season went on.
     
  15. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    all I can add to roscoe's post that if organization decides to follow "drafting and developing" route, neccessary instructions are given by owners to GMs and coaches.

    Q was hired by JoeD to win as many games possible not to "develope young players for the future". And I'm very sure that in current situation ownership is keenly interested in keeping Pistons attractive by winning at all cost (oh, owner wants to sell it, remember?).

    I think, I have every reason to believe that " rebuilding on the fly" was not Dumars' invention.
    Team heading to lottery=empty arena, ergo big taboo for owners.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I want to be on record, I am not a Q fan per se. But there is another side to this season.

    I do agree with Lee that Dumars has done a horrendous job getting us to this point, as I indicated about the overall quality of the roster, lack of our own developed talent, and not mentioned, being a man short all year (roster size 14) with so many injuries. Perhaps when 3 guards were down, Joe should have signed someone to support Stuckey and limit Atkins' time on the floor.
     
  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Good stuff, Rascoe. I had no problems with Kuester this year.
     
  18. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Yeah, yeah, we know, we know. Rascoe, you are such a dorkus/nerd:nerd2::nerd2:...but we love ya anyhow.:hug:
     
  19. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    1)None of my opinions were formed in the past two months. My post is consistent to what I have said thruout the season.

    2) Other coaches making bad decisions does not excuse Q from making bad decisions. Further, Tay is Tay, not some other player. Tay has always thrived on rest. And for two of our most significant injuries, absolutey they could have been prevented. One, by not playing Rip in garbage time, and two, by not playing Tay heavy minutes in a 3 game in 4 night situation to start the season. Q admitted himself, he has a hard time following game plans "in the heat of battle."

    3) I will concede that Q could not easily limit his players minutes at times - but not for one second do I believe that Rip would have been adverse to starting the season out with lighter minutes, with a plan toward keeping him fresh for the playoffs. Q went into his play the vets mode way to fast, and to an extreme.

    4) You can say what you want about Daye, since he hardly played enough to really show what he can do. I believe he has a lot of promise, and was far more a victim of Q playing the vets vs. any inadequacies of Daye himself.

    5) Summers was probably our most promising rookie, showing a whole lot early anytime Q chose to let him play. Another victim of playing the vets.

    6)JJ did get to play - but he could have looked a lot better if played to matchups - instead of what actually happened, where he either played small forward or power forward but never both.

    7) On injuries, regardless of how they happened, they could have been managed better. No Tay, the team did not need you. No way a player who can't play, and who is taking minutes from the development of promising rookies is needed. After you got healed, then you should have suited up. Not before. And playing CV extensively with the foot problem was total mismanagement. Look at the boxscores. CV was not limited in minutes until after the playoffs were only a pipedream. Meanwhile, you claim Chucky did not play more than was absolutely needed. Nope, Chucky played a ton, even when totally not needed. Again, just go and review the midseason boxscores.

    8) Matchups. You could not get a worse coach as far as matchups, no way. Q played guys according to his minutes schedule, never to matchups. Never. Yes, toward the end of the season, when it all mattered not one bit, with no pressure on him at all to win or lose a game, sure, things got a bit better in that regard. But until then, it was all about how many minutes his vets could get - totally irregardless of matchups.

    9) Finally, Q showed no signs of ever recognizing a single mistake he made during the season, so no, I hold out no hope of him improving. You can't possibly improve if you don't see your problems. This guy ain't like Carlisle, who although he made mistakes (many of which he still makes by the way)also did a whole lot of things well. Q basically mismanages all situations, and even if he does have a good idea, does not have the emotional makeup to remember any of his plans during the game.

    10) And concerning the team makeup. No, Dumars did not do a bad job of providing a team capable of winning games. Its just that he has a coach who can't use his players right. Other than playing Maxiell consistent minutes all year - which even that was forced on him to quite an extent, Q mismanaged or failed to lead all his players.
     
  20. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yeah I often wondered why Joe didn't do any 10 day contracts or find someone from the D' league like the guy they cut at the end of the preseason Deron Washington or a FA etc to fill in when we were struggling with no guard depth, but figured it was to early for 10 day contracts and he figured the Q would play Daye or Summers in those roles....

    Deron Washington now is in post season play going for a title and the pistons are recuperating at home for their longest relaxation in 8 summers.

    Ex-Piston Deron Washington goes for D-League title | freep.com | Detroit Free Press
     

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