Could The Iverson/Pistons Problem Have Been Fixed?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by indiefan23, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,889
    Likes Received:
    995
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    OK..in that context it makes sense. Bynum is not comparable to Iverson.
  2. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is partly why I wrote the article. Why bring him back at all? Why not blow up the team if you're just going to rebuild anyway? Cuz if you let him come back and slap him in the face his reaction is really easy to predict. As anyone's would be so they can hide the fact that they quit on the team behind Iverson's media scrutiny while pretending that they're trying hard for fans and season tickets.

    So they did it for PR. Insult him. AI is honest. Let him take the fall for 1. a brutal basketball trade and 2. brutal coaching. Classic, cheap, and cowardly scapegoating 101.
  3. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Ft. Belvoir, Virginia
    I do agree that Curry screwed up in utilizing AI's skill set, Curry was so indecisive in exactly how to play to AI's strengths, he seemed confused with his entire coaching schemes as can be witnessed by start him, not start him, as well as the numerous lineup changes.

    I would like to add another factor to the whole AI debacle, I really don't think the team made an effort in acclimating AI to the pistons family, and furthermore, strongly believe that AI was not welcome as a part of the team from day one.

    This may have been due to the Billups mystique and/or AI rolling into motown as a superstar and FHOFer.

    I am opposed to moving Bynum at this point in the season, he is playing great basketball and looks as though he will become a pistons mainstay.
  4. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    374
    I went ahead and wasted some paper in printing this recent justification from you.
  5. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed. I just think its really weak that AI is going to get blamed for this season's failure with a still very talented team. Having Stucky start was very pre-mature... he was not ready to be consistent.

    I think a big part of coaching is just managing personalities and making sure people are accepting and happy. Look at what Phil Jackson/Mike Dantoni (in phx) do and you'll see players that might not even like each other but play to win together. Curry's 17 minutes and statements... I don't know, I can't see any way of construing them but to agravate Iverson and disrespect him on the team.

    All it takes is a few meetings to show support for the guy but the pistons know the trade was a throw away and never got behind it. It makes no sense... had they shown Iverson to work in Detroit they could have traded him for something great at the deadline. Now all they've gotten for Billups is squat. Shame.
  6. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    374
    Those meetings from a rookie coach have no legitimacy. At this level it's all Mississippi mud.

    The real level (at 20+million) is not some catfish bottom dweller, but some real mountain-stream trout freedom.

    You now are a big time media technological show (sans robotic Detroit) with your own brand of cattails afloat on superficial and aggressive bass psychologies.

    Can JD begin to understand the beauty (at the end of the day), of some Southwest sunsets?
  7. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,405
    Likes Received:
    391
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Lets see. Started him at PG and was probably the best option for him but that did not last very long. Moved him over the SG but that came with small ball. Tried him in a bigger lineup with Rip off the bench but we lost with that.

    Brought him in not only for cap relief but as a way to get someone who could create his own shot. Only problem was he took too many of them and his defense was terrible. At PG he would have wanted less shots and defensively would have matched up better against other PG's than SG's.

    I think a lot of this boils down to Stuckeys entitlement at the starting PG spot. Hope its worth it.
  8. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    902
    Likes Received:
    179
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kaohsiung, Taiwan
    I've always loved to watch AI play but not in blue white red uniform. Pistons / Curry didn't utilized him to maximum but they aren't alone. Joe just ended up in short side of the bet. Curry ain't good at sideline but everyone is grown man like everyone, I don't believe there had no communication been proceeded. Whether the communication was legitimate is subjectiveness. After all, the AI debacle has justified Joe's rant : the roster must be shaken up to accommodate established players.
  9. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, that's the point is it not? The coaching is weak and to blame. If Curry took more of a lead role in integrating Iverson, as you know, leading the team is his job, then it would not be the same. Rookie coach has nothing to do with it. You can list countless rookie coaches who's players respected in their first year. If Curry was that weak, Dumars should have stepped in. I think the players respect him, no?
  10. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    I dunno, I think they need to get rid of the established players. Seriously... this team is in rebuilding mode now. I don't know why they didn't trade away Rip/Prince/Sheed/Dice as well. Can you imagine what they could do with the picks and cap space and young players by 2010?? Prince to OK City gets them some serious players as does any of their other starters to anywhere else. Billups for nothing just lets them falter as Sheed gets older.
  11. DirtyMoney

    DirtyMoney First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Geogia
    yes, they should have bought him out of his contract so he could see what is was really like coming off of a loser's bench.
  12. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    374
    All Rookie coaches make mistakes. Most have to put years on and off the bench from a coaching perspective, or have a big reputation like the standards (ie. LB, POP, Sloan, etc.).

    Curry doesn't seem to have any type of working system for himself which translates into little stability. This is one of the reasons the fourth quarter is usually a disaster for this club.

    This team eventually tunes every coach out.

    JD has let this happen because he gets compensated.

    By my standards he is slowing losing his aura of a talented GM. He has weakened this club to such an extent that a complete blowup now seems likely.

    Stuckey has regressed and what little on-court leadership he wanted to project is now in full acquiesce mode.
  13. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think so. Teams usually tune out bad coaches. GM's consistently rehire bad coaches. Popavich = great coach. Sloan = great coach. Dantoni = great coach. Players always tuned in. Hate to say it, but Doc Rivers can be a great coach too... his players always play hard for him no matter how poor his own decesions are. Or Mike Brown even... Cleveland plays for that guy even though he's really not fantastic on the sidelines or at the x's and o's as he's hired other guys to do that for him.

    The problem with coaches in the NBA is that the evaluation process has become totally messed. How do you hire PJ Carlisimo to be Durant's first coach? He played Durant at the 2??? So senseless. Ewing has been dying to be a head coach for years but even the Knicks won't even give the guy an interview.

    Rather then gaining experience over years, I think most coaches are just bad and it takes years to be lucky enough to get good enough players to cover your faults.

    I think Dumars played his hand maybe a little early, but he gave up on this core of players when he traded Billups. Which is a shame cuz he finally got Iverson after years of trying. I do think he made shoddy coaching choices though. Flip Saunders? Curry over offering Tom Thibideau a job? No sense esp for the Pistons.
  14. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    374
    JD had a fall-out with Billups. Billups stood behind Flip and prevented further damage from the rest of the squad. When that barrier was actively taken down, the pearly gates were now open.

    Regardless of the inactivity from previous years of doing nothing with this squad, he hired his influential friend to coach. This was a disaster in the making which has proved to be the case.

    • Keep current coach and perhaps one major tweak and you get a .500 ballclub...no future
    • Keep current coach, blowup squad and you get a .500 ballclub...no future.
    • Get an experience coach (Jordan=offense; JVG=defense) with minor tweaks and you get +.500...some future.
    • Get an experience coach (Jordan=offense; JVG=defense) with at least three players gone (my definition of a blowup)and you get +.500...best future.
    Summing up: With a coaching change and some crafty FA-Trades you might avert not getting into the playoffs next year.

    This one is not rocket science. It should not be a process of giving up on any team members. It's JD's job to do what is best for the organization. If he can't, then the new owners will get someone that can do it.
  15. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,065
    Likes Received:
    547
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Land of the Spuds.
    Methinks it would be a long time before that happened. The Pistons have suffered through some lean years in the past. Joe is in very good graces with this organization and has a long positive history with them and a good reputation.

    When things go bad on this team, the coach is blamed. The GM and players get a free pass.

    [​IMG]
  16. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Beantown via Benton Harbor, MI
    AI is a waste of our time. He's not the type of player we need here. That's just my opinion. MAYBE if it were 5+ years ago but it's not and he's not the same player he used to be. We need to explore other options........and no I didn't even read the article. INI (I'm Not Interested) I do appreciate you taking the time to express your opinion though. I just think it's beating a dead horse.

    Word.
  17. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh, I didn't know that. Or read about it and had forgotten. Like I said I don't follow the Pistons much but they are one of the most intriguing teams in the NBA. More so then the Lake show or the Cavs I think. Wether they are ruining the best team in the league (Pacers) or winning a championship (lakers) or both (Lakers ;) ) its always interesting how its done and never conventional. One of the few teams that has a real personality. Celtics are antoher I think.

    Could not agree more. However Flip IMHO is a terrible coach.

    I'd say just scrap the team and give all the minutes to the kids. If you're not contending you should be losing and developing. Thats how good teams always do it. OK City/Sota/Cavs/Celtics/Spurs/Magic... they all share the same history its just that some are in the future and some are in the past/present. If that makes sense.
    Why avert that? Being in last place is way better then 8'th. It means you're getting a high pick for sure. Good fans always support a decesion to tank a season in developing youth.

    Yep, thats what it comes down to. I dunno, I think the Billups trade did make sense. In 2010 the landscape of the NBA is going to change dramatically and Billups was about to go into steep decline. In the NBA avoiding 1 bad contract is worth signing at least 2 or maybe 3 good ones. Again, the Spurs win so consistantly cuz they just refuse to give players bad contracts and build around their one max player.

    In the 'winning books' Manu at 10 million is worth way more then Kobe at 22 or whatever he's paid. Way way more, and thats why Kobe has 0 rings built around him and duncan has 4.
  18. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmm... well the article is not really about how Iverson is awesome. Its a different kind of system that I think would have really worked if someone had the nads to suggest something a little different instead of slapping him in the face and knocking his pride down a notch. Which is what happened.

    Iverson is not the exact same player but he's still very much in his prime. 'n I don't think its a player you need in Detroit. The Pistons need to decide wether they are trying to win games cuz the effort from the team and from Curry to win this year frankly stinks to high heaven. They nearly forced Iverson to the injured reserve after telling them they needed him back.

    Bold prediction... next year Iverson joing Larry Brown and the Bobcats spank the Pistons in the playoffs. It will be dubbed revenge fest 2010. I'm addicted to ball drama! My biggest disspointment this year is that Shaq didn't get a chance to play Kobe in 1 vs 8. The Suns would have surprised a lot of people and Shaq's effort would have blown through the roof. Cuz much as they play it off those two guys give a crap about eachother... lots. Too bad it didn't happen.
  19. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Except this time I think the coach is at fault. The talent is there but the wins are not. Who else?
  20. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    374
    Flip is an outstanding coach. Analytical, even personality and knew the tenure of a lasting coach: get victories, get into a position to have an outcome which stacks small steps going upward...building into advantages as you go up the food chain. Nearing the mountain-top you are now only as good as the rope that got you there.

    The mountain-top climbed resulting in 59 victories and possibilities that was to leave 29 other disappointments, but you still had that same rope. Be careful on the climb down and make sure on your hesitancy toward getting a new rope (in mind's eye) that is equally matched in quality of the former.

    JD has now got himself a ball composed of frail jute.

    Yes...it is an interesting story.

Share This Page