Could The Iverson/Pistons Problem Have Been Fixed?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by indiefan23, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    The fact remains that AI acted like a spoiled primadonna. If what the team needs from him is to put 18mpg off the bench, then he needs to swallow his ego, take a chill pill if he needs to, and then do what he's told. I am so sick and tired of the assumption that asking AI to play 18mpg off the bench is an insult to his highness. Is it somewhere in his contract that he either plays x number of minutes or he doesn't play at all? So you have to come off the bench after an illustrious career for fewer minutes than you're used to. Big DEAL. Get over it and do your job. Hey AI, here's a newsflash: if you're serious about winning a title THAT'S ALL YOU'RE GONNA GET OFFERED FROM THIS POINT ON!

    Gimme a break.
  2. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm sorry ID, but I don't agree with you. If Curry parker AI on the bench 48 minutes a game next to Sharpe, THAT would be not wanting him. If Dumars put him on the inactive list due to unspecified reasons, THAT would be not wanting him. Telling him to accept a lesser role is a tactical adjustment. AI quitting on the team the way he did is unacceptable.

    Imagine what would've happened if AI accepted his role and torched the Cavaliers in the first round coming off the bench and Detroit won the Cleveland series. Imagine how many teams would be running after him this summer. Imagine the love he'd receive in Detroit forever after that. But, he decided to burn his bridges because he just could not handle being a professional basketball player: doing what the team needs him to do.

    Iverson just proved once again that someone who talks about himself in third person during interviews always has an ego that is impossible to contain.
  3. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    What i'm saying is they (the management) didn't really want him, hence the minutes, and therefore whatever happened behind the scenes was mutual rather than AI saying I WILL NOT PLAY ANYMORE. If he said this they would have roasted him, it would be way too easy. AFAIK while on court he did not quit.

    Fair enough if you think AI should have accepted 18 mpg, but it isn't only AI that wouldn't accept this and you know this so its not really about AI, its about NBA stars in general. Which one out of Prince, Sheed, and Hamilton do you think would be happy about coming of the bench and getting 18 mpg? Go through the league and tell me how many players of Prince, Sheed or Hamilton's standard would be happy with coming off the bench and getting 18 mpg?

    P.S. riding a contender's bench on limited minutes just to get a title is worthless IMO. Playing the sixth man and making a valuable contribution is a totally different matter.
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It appears as though 18 mpg was too much as it re-aggravated his condition.

    Maybe they should have gone with 10 mpg for a while and gradually increased it. They just were too anxious to get him back I guess.
  5. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    The fact remains that AI took his ball and went home instead of choosing to help the team in any way he could.

    All the other stuff is just superfluous.
  6. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    Again, it isn't. It isn't noble turn the other cheek and play if you're not wanted, and i'm not sure why you would. Its a job, you wouldn't do anything your boss asks you at work, you have certain expectations of what you will be asked to do. So the question I asked about which NBA player of Prince, Sheed and Hamilton's standard would accept coming off the bench and 18 mpg still stands. Let me reverse the question, if it was Hamilton that was getting those minutes and was told thats all he would get, what would you think?
  7. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    The problem with the logic is you're basing it on ONE game.

    There were games where Rip played 20-ish minutes and he didn't say a word. IIRC there was more than one so it's not comparable. Rip took the benching as a challenge and played his heart out.

    AI played most of the 4th quarter the previous game. And I don't think b/c he got 18 min in one game, you can say that 18 min was going to be his PT from that point forward.

    Curry showed a very strong affinity for AI. If AI played well enough that he couldn't be taken off the floor and showed a real willingness to accept his role for the betterment of the team, his minutes would reflect that.

    No one told AI 18 minutes is where you top out. He got angry because he couldn't handle not starting. That sabbatical he took may as well have been injury-related, but he himself said that he was not in a "good place" mentally. I really think it would have been hard to satisfy him w/ any amount of minutes (with the exception of 38+) because he just couldn't handle the bench thing. He came into the role with obvious displeasure, and it took him only 2 games before he blew up.

    ----------

    If i was in a similar instance, and i had a job and a contract (knowing that contract was up soon), i would fullfill the rest of it and if i was unhappy i would choose to pursue a new job next year. Then again i'm not a superstar athlete and i can't afford to burn bridges without caring about the consequence.
  8. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    What did Rip average in MPG of the bench and what was the lowest he played?

    Curry basically said the only way he gets more minutes is if Rip plays the 3 a few minutes in some games.

    I'm not saying he was happy about being benched, and who knows he may still have been mad if he averaged 30 MPG off the bench (this would have AI ego), being mad about 18 MPG and the bench is standard NBA star ego and would result in a trade at the very least in most cases.

    -------------------------

    If you would accept being demoted from say a team manager to an administrator, and without resentment, you're better than most.
  9. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    ZING!!!!
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    As a starter:
    Rip- 51 games, 35.4 mpg, .447, 18.5 pts
    AI- 53 games, 37.9 mpg, .419, 18.0 pts

    Off the bench:
    Rip- 16 games, 29.6 mpg, .447, 17.7 pts
    AI- 4 games, 21.0 mpg, .371, 10.0 pts

    So, AI started more games for the Pistons this year than Rip did. When AI started, the coach gave him more minutes that he gave Rip. Despite that, Rip shot a higher percentage and scored more points.

    Off the bench, Rip served 16 games with no drop off in performance. He kept shooting the same percentage and almost matched his scoring output despite the 16% drop in court time. 21 minutes was his lowest.

    AI only came off the bench 4 times. While it is probably not a good idea to give someone with a back injury major minutes, the coaches still gave him over 20 minutes per game. Iverson's shooting % plummeted to .371, he barely got to the free throw line, and he only scored 10 points per game.
  11. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    If you don't like what you're being asked to do, you keep doing it until you get another gig somewhere else. You don't just stop showing up to work. If my boss tells me that I no longer can be the lead on the team and instead I need to be the new intern, I won't be happy. But, I'll still keep doing it while I look for another job. That's what people with a sense of responsibility do. Pouting and not showing up the next day is juvenile; and it's definitely NOT noble.
  12. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    I'm positive it was 3 games and 21, 18, 17 for AI, so thats 18.67 mpg.

    He wasn't given less minutes due to the back injury, its convenient to say he's faking it when it proves your point and say they are resting him when it doesn't. This quote tells you exactly why he was getting those minutes:

    Curry unfazed by Iverson rant | detnews.com | The Detroit News

    Contrast that with this: Report: Rip Hamilton to come off Detroit Pistons' bench - Detroit Pistons Full-Court Press - MLive.com

    Think the message was very clear.

    As for his play, fair call, but he wasn't going to be on song straight away, so if he's important to you and you need him in the playoffs you would give him a little more to work his way back to form. Also Rip averaged 6 mins less per game, thats not going to stop him doing what he does, especially as the go to guy whenever he came in!!!
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Maybe he had a game off the bench when we first got him, his first game after the trade? It shows up as 4 games off the bench on the NBA.com splits.

    Look at Ben Wallace's minutes now that he is coming off of an injury. It is smart to ease guys back into it. Allen was clearly not fully healed. He wasn't attacking. Wasn't getting to the line.
  14. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    Where's your boss's sense of responsibility to you?!!!
  15. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree its smart, but thats not what Curry said, what's more Curry said he'd already told him this. I'm pretty sure Rip would have flipped out if he'd been told this when he got benched.
  16. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    AI didn't act like a primadona at all. AI did have a back injury and rushed back early to play hurt. Then Curry only played him 18 minutes a game and said he had no intention of changing that so AI said WTF am I risking my health at my age for a team/coach that does not even want me.

    AI can still put up 20 solid points in 30 solid minutes for any team. I don't think he can still go to the finals as the #1 option anymore but you're just being silly saying all he can do anymore is play 18 minutes off the bench. You don't go from putting up 27 points on 46% shooting 7 assists and 2 steals/game to 18 minutes a game and garbage time over one summer. That's garbage.

    The pistons slapped him in the face as the perfect scapegoat cuz they knew a lot of fans would not see through what they had done. Wake up. Smell coffee. Curry ruined your still competitive team.
  17. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    Its tactically stupid.

    How about this. You walk into work one day and your boss tells you "Hey Walter, we know you are still capable of contributing to the company and all and that you're still pretty tops at your job, but we aren't happy that you are not the guy you replaced, even though we knew who you were before we hired you and its our fault because we has less of a plan then Bush in Iraq. So like, give us back your computer, here's a mop, we'll pay you the same money but we want you to mop the toilets and clean up spills while everyone in the office and our customers snicker at what a sack you are. Oh, by the way, you know that old Janitor who used to work here when you got here? We're going to give him your job that you do a better then he does at. BTW, the president of the company is going to announce it to all your customers and employers that you clean toilets for a living now. Cool? Great! Oh hey, thanks for coming in with food poisoning last week to work while you were barfing your guts out."

    Okay, how do you feel? Are you in the mood to accept your new role? Is your boss an %%%%%%% for blatantly disrespecting your talent? What happened is the Pistons handed Iverson a great big PFO and he complied.

    Here's a secret. Teams are going to be running after him anyway because even a step slower he's still a better baller then the vast majority of the league.

    What did AI say that made you so mad anyway? He said "I'm having trouble contributing like this. I rushed back from injury. I have a new respect for people who play off the bench because I'm trying to do it and find it very hard and demoralizing.

    Sounds like honesty to me. Then he and the pistons parted ways and he kept his mouth shut because that's what they asked him to do and like a pro, he did just that.
  18. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    I dunno man, the team had no plan on how to use him. They just tried to plug him into the current system which made no sense whatsoever.
  19. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    He came off of the bench after he was so engrossed on spending time with his family around Thanksgiving that he missed practice. Hater.
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Is Lamar Odom cleaning toilets in LA or trying to win a Championship?

    So, 1 of AI's bench games was after missing practice (practice?). That means that there were 3 games where he didn't get the minutes he's accustomed to getting.

    Game 1- he shot 33% from the field and 50% from the FT line. 2 assists, 2 turnovers.

    Game 2- 11 points on 8 shots. 0 FT attempts. 2 ast, 3 turnovers.

    Game 3- 4 points. Shot 12.5% from the field (1-8). Was -8 in the game.

    Is it possible that AI's performance caused the coach to restrict his playing time? I mean if Aron Afflalo shot 1 for 8 in 20 minutes, he'd get DNP's for a month.

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