Could The Iverson/Pistons Problem Have Been Fixed?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by indiefan23, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    My point is, if you are working for someone, and that someone tells you to do something that you feel is beneath what you are capable of accomplishing, you suck it up and do it. When you get a better gig, you then leave. The boss doesn't respect you and puts you in that position, that's on him. As a result of that mismanagement he loses a skilled employee. But, when you flush your integrity down the toilet, whine and quit, all you really accomplish is prove the boss right.
  2. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    Lol, you really know how to play games with stats! That 11 points of 8 shots was a 5 for 8 (62.5%) shooting. Check the boxscore below. Compare +/- and shooting stats with the starters. He got 18 minutes in that game. NBA.com: Pistons at Cavaliers Boxscore, this btw was game after which AI had his rant, coincidence? Doubt it.

    Once again I quote, Curry unfazed by Iverson rant | detnews.com | The Detroit News

    If you don't think he can play, why exactly were you eagar for him to come back. And if he has to earn minutes, why 18 in a game he's playing well?
  3. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    Why wouldn't you just quit, if you could or look for something then quit. I personally work to live, not live to work.

    The point anyway was I don't think AI quit in the sense of saying, i'm not playing anymore. Whatever happened behind the scenes was most likely mutual IMO.
  4. max

    max All-Star

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    You can argue about the bench thing but AI did start 50 games here and his MPG was only about 3 or 4 less than what he was getting in Denver as a starter.

    I do think this year was more about developing Stuckey and not trying to isolate Rip that much than it was about AI. In all fairness the team was not going anywhere at the time AI was benched ( 4-12 with AI as the starting SG and Rip off the bench) and you have to start thinking more about the players who will still be here next season.

    With that said. AI did have a shot here and maybe if he would have played better then he would have kept his starting spot. If we had gotten any of the other superstar guards I just don't see the same thing happening. They would have made themselves too valuable to take out. But that's just my opinion.

    A lot of this also has to do with how good Billups really was. Pistons fans used to get laughed at when discussions on CB as a superstar came up. I don't think anyone is laughing now.
  5. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    He wasn't demoted and the fact that he couldn't get past seeing it like that is very telling.

    -----------

    If AI played more than 2 games off the bench, then we could make this comparison. Point is AI never gave it a chance to work from the get go. His absence + coupled with the timing of the injury + his comments make it hard to believe that he wasn't looking for an excuse to get out of having to come off the bench in any way, shape , or form.
  6. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    Did you read my post about Curry's comments about each player's benching? I think you'll find he was demoted. It wasn't the bench, it was the comments and the mpg

    As Max said, and I said a while back (probably on this thread), its obvious they started looking to the future. That's cool, the organisation has to work for its own benefit. There was just no point bring AI back in the first place if that was the plan.

    The regarding him not playing, anyone remember this: Iverson return not any closer | detnews.com | The Detroit News

    Interesting, why the question and why the answer?
  7. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    We'll never agree on this. But it's fun to debate.

    Pot-ay-to
    Pot-ah-to

    Cheers my friend!
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Most of us aren't under contract.

    Also, you quit a job, you aren't supposed to get paid anymore.

    So, I guess this situation is more like a firing, where the employer gives the former employee severence out of the goodness of their heart.
  9. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    lol, thats cool.

    More like redundancy ;)
  10. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Because it was to be determined, the right call: everyone wants to spend time with the family.
  11. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    When did AI whine? He did nothing more then what Rip did when rip was coming off the bench except rip still played almost the same minutes off the bench. AI was asked a question and he answered it. You're pretty hypocritical cuz you're raking Iverson over the coals for what Rip did.

    And I mean, that's not how you handle a work situation at all. If you want your employer to walk all over you maybe. What Curry did to Iverson was cut his minutes in a contract year which is going to cost Iverson multi-millions of dollars because it makes him look like he can't perform anymore. So your boss comes up to you and makes you clean toilets and that means you lose millions and you're gonna keep a smile on your face everyday? That doesn't make any sense to me, because human beings don't react that way and neither do you. AI's still a person, just like us, so why do you have such higher expectations? He's not Ghandi.
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    We don't talk to one another like that at PF.com
  13. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    Odom is getting 30 minutes a game and is not given scrub minutes. Lamar is also not disrespected by his coach.


    No, its not possible. I know cuz I actually did a play by play of AI's PT on this. Its earlier in the thread but I'll paste for you again. He did in 6 minutes what everyone else could not do in the whole game. Except Rip who had 2 more points. The person they gave Iverson's minutes to, Bynum, lost them the game.

    Curry's ineptitude was shining bright recently in Cleveland. Iverson was finally given some minutes in the fourth. That is after running the offense throuugh Will Bynum created a 7 point deficit in the quarter. 9 plus/minus if you include the Bynum shot that Joe Smith swatted. 11 if you include his missed dunk. 13 if you count his bricked jumper. 14 because he could not stay in front of Mo Williams who hit Bron for an clear path pass on a back door play. The Cavs announcer needed extra dry cleaning to say the least after that.

    So at the nine minute mark Iverson was allowed to use the ball. Every time AI pushed, this happened. Drained a pull up. Uncontested jumper in the key. Shot a pass to Maxiell from the 3 point line under the hoop for an easy lay in. Will Bynum missed a point blank lay up in transition. Shot Sheed a pass from under the hoop to the 3 point line for a wide open trey. (missed) Split the defense, drove the lane, easy lay up. Will Bynum threw a pass away then promptly raced down to foul 23 for the and 1. (at least he got a dime!) Drew a foul on Big Z trying to contain AI. AI got blocked. Good D by MO. Stuck on MO like glue forcing him to miss a shot. Gave it to McDyce for a wide open jumper. (missed) Almost turned it over driving to the hole but ripped it away from Varajeo and called time too quickly for him to react. Then as a reward for saving the possession Curry used the timeout Iverson fought for and called to take him off the floor.

    For that 5:50, with the ball, they were down 7. Iverson responded with 9 points on 4 of 5 shooting, two assists, two wide open looks for teammates, 1 drawn foul, got the lead, and was pulled from the game. They were down 3 when Curry pulled him. They lost the lead when Bynum threw the rock away and fouled Bron. In fact, the only scoring plays Bynum was involved in during the stretch was when he passed it to AI and got out of his way. Curry put the starters back in and they promptly let the lead balloon to 8 before losing by 6. Oh yea, he also took a slap-in-the-face sized stake and drove it through the most exposed heart in the league. (its on his sleeve) In 18 minutes AI outscored everyone except Rip's 13 with 11 points. 9 in that 6 minute stretch when they, you know, let him play.

    It was Iverson's second game back after not playing for over a month, after he rushed back from his back injury to contribute. Whats inside the mind of Curry? Well, this was his thinking before Iverson came back.

    "Maybe Allen comes in and plays a lot of time at Will Bynum's spot," Curry said.

    I don't know about the other two games but posting low box scores when Iverson didn't have minutes with a coach who obviously has it out for him is a pretty bias way to evaluate a player.
  14. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    Uh, sorry. ;0 ... how about 'that does not make sense to me.' All I really meant.
  15. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    In AI's case he really can't quit. That's one of the problem with such long term deals. You're stuck with each other. I find it kind of sad honestly. Guys like Walter are angry that AI quit on the team and all that. But if he really quit on the team he would have negotiated a buy out with them before the deadline to be eligible for the playoffs so he could play with another team. He could have joined the Celtics (instead of Marbury) and made a serious run at a title then. Instead he didn't quit on them and decided he wanted to try and help his current team in a playoff run. To which they responded by slapping him in the face and telling him they frankly were just not going to let him play. Its tragic.
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Certain guys in these parts would kill for 20 minutes per game. That's almost 2 full quarters. And it was only for 3 games.

    I'm pretty sure he would have quit if he was coming off the bench for 47 minutes per game. He just felt insulted.

    And MC was so scared of him that he insulted half the other players on the team before he worked up the courage to insult AI.


    Here's hoping Joe D decides to insult MC in about 2-3 more games.
  17. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    How do you rush back from an injury in a month?
  18. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    About as closely one had run in.
  19. Fuster

    Fuster Second Round Draft Pick

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    The good coaches know how to work with a player and get them comfortable with what they are doing with the team. They help them fit in. Curry lacks that capacity. Maybe some day he will be there, but right now he is learning the ropes and using the Pistons as his grand experiment.

    However, pro athletes are employees. They sign contracts and get paid more money than most Americans can even imagine. For that they are required to perform. Iverson has not understood that concept. He wants to do it on his terms. That is not a team player, and technically he is in violation of his contractual obligations.

    I understand why they made this trade, and if they can use that freed cap space after Iverson and Wallace are gone next year to get some good replacement players, whoop-de-doo. But they still have to get a coach with some experience who has a track record of developing players so they can start to see some more production from that over-talented bench of theirs.
  20. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    It was 18.67 a quarter and a half.

    This thread would be dead if people would just make logical arguments. Max did in his post and a couple of others did but the rest are just in the main anti-Iverson without the logic to back it up. Anti AI is cool, illogical is not.

    Certain guys would kill for it, yes your Amir types, not your Hamilton types.

    Maybe he would have complained about 47 minutes, I doubt it, but that isn't what happened so there is no proof of this; however we all know that most all stars wouldn't have accepted 18 mpg off the bench and the star players we're all saying come off the bench all get significant minutes. I guess in your eyes Hamilton accepting 30 mpg also proves he would accept 18 mpg of the bench (A quarter less, btw)?

    Why not a fair evaluation rather than an anti AI evaluation? its pretty clear from the way you presented the stats earlier, that you have a view and will try and present the facts to support that view rather than look at the facts and form a view from them. Obviously from my forum name you can tell i'm an AI fan, but all my arguments have been logical IMO, and any valid points made by others, i've accepted, (eg, AI's play).

    We all know Hamilton (who wasn't happy about being benched) or Prince wouldn't have accepted 18 mpg off the bench.

    I made a post with Curry's comments on each players benching yet somehow people can't see that both benchings were different.

    What happens in this situation usually is the team goes in another direction and trades the player, they don't expect them to accept 18 mpg of the bench, the difference is, AI is expiring so there was no need to do this.

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