Could The Iverson/Pistons Problem Have Been Fixed?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by indiefan23, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    Pretty easy since rush is relative. If an injury takes 6 months to heal and you come back after 4 because you can play but aren't 100%, you've rushed back.

    FTR though, relative to his history, I don't think he rushed back and I think he was more cautious with this injury than he would normally have been, it was pretty clear he wasn't 100% when he came back though.
  2. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree that he wasn't 1000% when he came back, but he didn't seem to be doing any rehab work either for most of the time.

    AI was complaining about his playing time on hand and then complaining that he was injured on the other.

    It is hard to say what happened with his actual minutes. Did it relate to his long absence and Curry couldn't depend on him any more or was it less sensational and Curry saw the negative impact on the team when he played Hamilton so many minutes during his stint as a backup?

    AI didn't really give it any time to work out though.
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I do have a view. And it was shaped from watching AI for 1 season. I'm incredibly disgusted that we have the first all-star in the history of professional sports to walk away from his team as they enter the post season. Have some perspective. He started the entire season and came off the bench 1 time after missing the Thanksgiving practice that was scheduled specifically for him and 3 times after having a suspiciously long back injury. I am upset because I would rather have him coming off the bench right now than not have in uniform at all.

    As much as I think he is way overpriced at $22M and that he was a terrible trade for Billups, I still think that he can positively contribute. Also, he has temendous upside if he plays well. Look at the first game against Cleveland this year. AI played one of his best games of the season and it was the only time we beat them.

    I agree with you that most guys in his shoes would have been upset with being demoted to the bench. I would be incredibly upset if it happened to me (if I were that good at anything). But 99% of them would have still done it.

    And speaking of logic, how can you flat out kill your free agent value by confirming every negative suspicion that every GM already has about you? He lost more money in one instant than he can lose at the casino in a week.
  4. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    I just think Curry was doing what he thought was best for the team, now and in the future, thats his job so there's nothing wrong with that. I haven't seen any reason why Curry would have a grudge against AI. I agree AI didn't give it much time but if Curry has said you're getting 18 mpg (which it sounds like he had), I doubt it could have worked and they must have known this.

    Like I said I can't argue with you on the play front, AI hasn't been great. From the games i've seen they hadn't intergrated him into the team properly (blend his style with the team play), who thats on and how the responsibility for tht should be shared, is up for debate.

    AI would probably have been the first all star to accept 18 mpg off the bench. I doubt he quit but I think it was mutual as you know that AI wouldn't have stopped moaning unless something changed, So the change was him not playing.

    I think most GMs would already know AI wouldn't accept 18 mpg so i'm not sure how much value he lost (He maybe could have increased his value by surprising them). TBH i'm not sure AI is that valuable in that type of role anyway, he'd either be off, or even if he's on, he wouldn't be on court long enough to do much damage.
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    I have a feeling that no one is going to sign AI over the summer. His agent will be asking too much and no one is going to want to commit to giving him the role that he wants.

    I think he will be signed to a contender during the later part of the season in a reserve role. Come out and say something on how he is willing to do what it takes to win or whatever.
  6. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    Amen.

    Umm... one point everyone should really take note of: we don't know what the conversation was like between Iverson and the team. There's no evidence that Iverson quit or that Iverson was asked to stay away. If he 'refused' to play he's in violation of his contract however the Pistons probably told him to go because they didn't want an unhappy player around the team. Nothing in your contract says you have to be happy about having your HOF career slighted because someone had a hot streak while you were injured. Also I mean, you have to consider what Curry did to Iverson's reputation by benching him in a contract year. Sure all that good worker sounds great but he's going to cost Iverson multi-millions of dollars because he won't have an oppotunity to prove he can still produce after his injury. If your boss makes you clean toilets and cuts your salary in half for your next job how are you supposed to get along with him?

    That being said: any insinuation that Iverson quit on the team is pure and unadulterated conjecture. The 'only' released information has been that they mutually agreed he needent risk further injuring his back. Everyone knows thats BS cuz Iverson defines warrior in terms of playing hurt, but absolutly no one knows the details of who wanted to quit on who or if it was truly amicable and mutual. People just make up what happened based on who they hate and if they are true or not: they are still just pure fiction in the minds of people who argue about it till they're blue in the face.

    Lastly, playing in the NBA is nor a normal job. And while Iverson gets paid more then anyone could imagine, he also generates and makes more cash for his employers then anyone can imagine. AI has 'always' been one of the most consistant ticket draws in the league and even if they wern't winning he has carried every franchise he's been wit financially. He makes much more cash then he's paid and much more then his teammates make for the team.

    Part of the reason I'm sure the Pistons ownership okayed the Iverson trade was for that as well. They wanted him at least in part because Iverson sells. Tickets, advertising, TV spots and ratings. Another conjecture was the Dumars slam: who's to say this was actually his decesion? Ownership, faced with a financial crisis, may have forced his hand just as Washington ownership forced Kwame on MJ. Again, its the GM's job to take those mistakes as if they were his and we never hear those conversations. People should not be so quick to judge when they don't actually know the details.

    Yep. I put their ceiling on a pickup at Chris Bosh. They have to get rid of Curry too. Its not that he's the worst coach ever but a great coach makes such a ridiculous difference.
  7. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    Eh, maybe, but I don't think so. I think its more like Bennet Salvatore (sp) does what he thinks is right but in reality just caves to the home crowds.

    Curry's problem is that he wasn't able to establish the Pistons as his team. I'm sure he tried to but the personalities on the Pistons were just too confident for his personality to overcome. Can you imagine Sheed vs Curry? F you coach: I'll say yes now but when I'm on the floor the ball is in my hands. Curry spent too much time trying to make Detroit people happy and its going to cost him his job.
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    This isn't a criminal trial here, it's a civil trial.

    75% likelihood gets us a judgment.
  9. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Cleaning toilets??? I guess I am not following the analogy here because if they were cleaning toilets; wouldn't you want to be the one cleaning them for less minutes??

    You make it sound like AI was demoted to garbage man. He and Rip do the same job. It was just one of them needed to do it in less time. They tried Rip and then they were going to try AI. It may have very well worked out that it didn't work that way either and Stuck would have went to the bench and AI may have been promoted. We will never know.

    The bottom line is if you are using the quote from Curry to justify that AI was going to only get back up minutes you should know better.

    Curry changes his mind more then some of us change underwear. WE had quotes about Dice off the bench, We need Amir, etc. I honestly think if AI had just rode it out; he and the team would be in a different situation right now. Just my two cents.
  10. Nemo

    Nemo Hall of Fame Forum Donor

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    Just think of the ways the Iverson's career and Barry Sander's career have mirrored one another.

    1. Both quit at a most inopportune time, leaving their teams in the lurch.
    2. Both are sure first ballot hall of famers.
    3. Both played for mostly below standards programs.
    4. Both hated practice.
    5. Both were unable to make their teammates play better.
    6. Both were all or nothing players.
    7. Both were one dimensional players. Iverson/No "D" - Sanders/No receiving skills.

    Maybe we're being too rough on Iverson - or too nice to Barry. :)
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    More times than Darth and Jammer trade underwear.
  12. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    Thats cool but a civil court still demands evidence. It just balance of probablity vs. beyond reasonable doubt.

    Right lets start the trial ;)
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Evidence-

    He was here, then he wasn't here, then he came back, then he quit.

    I have 357 witnesses that attended the party in ATL and they can testify that they saw him breakdancing on a dirty piece of cardboard. Then after he got really drunk, he won the limbo contest.
  14. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    I don't agree with the Barry analogy. Barry busted his ass for the Lions for years. And I think he did make his teammates play better. I was a little pissed when he cut out cuz he was the only thing worth watching...but I got over it and don't blame him in the least.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We made the playoffs with Barry. That is an amazing feat. The Lions didn't improve immediately upon his departure... or anytime since.
  16. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    Objection your honour. None of the evidence provided shows he quit.
    Objection sustained, prosecution next witness ;)
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Would you consider an article by McCoskey proof?
  18. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    ROTFLMAO (really lol but it was too short)
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm sure that if there were a criminal trial, your client would be acquitted. But since I have him here in peoples' court, I'm going for nondishargeable judgment.

    This jury selection process is going to be brutal, I can tell already. It will be tough finding anyone here who hasn't heard of Iverson. I may have to go to the gardening thread to find some.
  20. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    lol, My client asks for a trial in the UK, as there is no chance he would get a fair trial in the States, I present this thread as my evidence your honour ;)

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