Discussion in 'January 2014' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.
Sloppy game. Unbelievably low amount of assists.
First, the main problem. Singler. Minus 17 until Jennings put in a couple of meaningless layups in the closing seconds of the game. Singler gave up tons of points directly, and lots more by completely opting out of ever being part of our front line defense, when playing as the small forward.
And Singler played starters minutes. This coach is totally missing what is going on. Singler comes in, and things like interior D and 2nd chance points go away.
And did we need Singler? Harrellson came on for Drummond a bit and did just fine. And he came back in for him again and we went on a 9-2 run. After that, Singler comes in and all good things end. Singler was rather quickly down minus 20 for the game toward the beginning of the 4th quarter. We got a little closer with him still in, but that was a bunch of heroics by other players, nothing at all Singler did. Yes, Singler did hit that 3, but notice, Dallas was not even pretending to guard him on that play. They know the drill, Singler almost never hits more than one triple in a game. Spending time guarding him is a waste, and all teams know it. Just our coach has not been given the memo.
For some unknown reason to me at this point, Drummond was pulled immediately to start the 2nd half for Harrellson. Until that point, we went with a 7 man rotation. No Bynum, so Singler can not use Bynum as an excuse for yet another heavily negative game. But Kudos to coach at least for actually using Stuckey as the point. It was not great, but him playing some point did not hurt us, and that is what you hope from your backup point.
Was Dallas that good really? During the 16 minutes Singler was not on the floor, we were plus 3.
Not to be funny. Being serious. Coach would drop us down to a one man rotation if he could. And that one man would be Singler. Coach is going entirely in the wrong direction by shortenting his rotation, while keeping Singler in it.
Jennings, Monroe, and Smith all had 20 points or better. Starting unit is playing just fine. Its our bench that is the problem, specifically, Singler's defense. In this game, it was totally embarrassing for Piston fans who watched the game, and saw us put Singler on real NBA players like Dirk and Vince. What nonsense. Do not like it one bit to see us lose by playing weakly to the point of involving Singler in any way in the game. I do not like horrid, non= existent defense one bit. And that is what Singler plays.
The play of the night to me was Josh Smirh subbing back in to the game with 5 minutes to go and wincing when he told Monroe he was coming in for him.
This was after Smith, the games leading scorer, had sat out the entire 4th Q.
Are we sure Cheecks isn't trying to lose?
Maybe Harrelson should sub for Drummond regularly?
Coach Cheecks pulled Drummond early in the 2nd half so he could learn the Pistons way "coming out of timeouts".
Drummond traveled coming out of a timeout later in the game so it looks like the lesson took. It's amazing how quickly he picks things up for a young player!
It's amazing how many times this year that Special K is mentioning how the Pustons need to do X if they're going to make a run while they're in the process of allowing X to happen.
I flipped back and forth between the Grammys and the Pistons game and I have to agree that the defense with Singler in there looked pretty bad..he couldn't stop Dirk or Vinsanity..
Plus...those who thought we should be playing all those scrubs...their bench outscored ours 46-22 as the S & S club were 7-22 shooting for 20 pts. They were both blocked 3 times each and it seems like each time the Mavs took the ball down to the other end to score bucket.....for those keeping score that was a 24 point swing....
It great for the casual basketball fan who wants to watch Dirk swishing open jumpshots.
Drummond had an unusually bad game tonight. 4/6 in 26 minutes. Ugly.
Josh Smith needs to get a new trigger mechanism because he can't control the recoil when it is set to automatic. Monroe obviously had a pretty good game, can't really comment because I didn't get to watch it - I decided that getting covered in old gearbox oil was a more worthwhile endeavour.
Could people who watched the game please give me a bit of a recap on how Jennings played??
For a short stretch in the third Jennings was on a mission dishing and scoring as the Pistons put on one of their twice a game runs that never-ever happen in crunch time. But then Stuckey and Smith decided it was their turn to shoot, they missed a couple of shots, it cooled him off and he was back to normal and the uncertainty of what he was supposed to do with ball ruled its ugly head.
A late third quarter 77-77 tie turned into a 89-81 deficit 2 minutes into the 4th, and the game was over in my opinion.
Here is the magical trailing 20 game +/- that you're fond of (per 36):
-2.9: KC Pope
Team average during this stretch is -4.5. If you look at the 20 games before that, it's basically flip flopped with the bench outperforming the starters (but Drummond still an outlier). With Drummond on the floor during this stretch we are -124 in 639 minutes. With him on the bench, we are +6 in 321 minutes. It's strange. Presumably that success came with bench members in there, but all bench players are negative over this stretch, so it's not that simple.
While nobody comes off very well, it certainly doesn't paint the picture of one individual single handedly towing down an organization. Drummond's figures add up to a huge deficit because of all the minutes that he gets, but I'm not ready to reduce that playing time.
We have problems Lee.
Bench guards have been a major failure over this stretch. Tonight, we were +2 with Jennings on the court and -12 in only 10 minutes without him (and with Stuckey manning the point).
Drummond for the most part has been posting huge stats, but isn't leading us to even adequate team defense. He's increasingly wasting offensive rebounds by forcing up bad putbacks or turning it over trying to put the ball on the floor (but man can he board!)
Pope is playing solid D, but has extremely low usage and isn't even shooting for a good average on his tight selection (only eFG of .005 better than Charlie V). This is a position that normally gets massive offensive production for a team.
Josh Smith is about to set the record for worst shooter ever in an NBA season.
We are the 4th worst FT shooting team since 1970 (that means 4th out of more than 1,200 teams!). Even tonight, we had the same number of FTAs as Dallas and made 7 less in a 10 point loss.
We're about the worst 3-point shooting team and the worst at guarding the 3-point line (may be the worst still, but I haven't checked lately). Our two best 3-point shooters are Josh Harrellson and Will Bynum, which is pathetic.
Monroe is getting destroyed at the arc by stretch 4's.
We're not well coached enough to guard P&Rs.
Jennings shoots a lousy percentage and has a terrible conversation rate in the paint and draws very few FTs in the half court set. Still shoots too many fadeaways and ball hogs in the 4th quarters.
Bynum is getting shot over like a 5'11" blocko inflatable.
Smith and Jennings are both shooting significantly worse eFGs than Charlie Villanueva, who himself is at a career low.
If Cheeks isn't going to make the team better through coaching, then he may as well shake up the rotation and hope for triple 7's. At this point, I'm even down with trying Siva off the bench with Jerebko, Mitchell, Villanueva, and Jorts. What do we have to lose? It's not going to work, but I don't think that the current method is about to break out either.
Ideally, we can get a real starting SF. Until then, it's a guy who leads the team in attempts and shoots worse than Charlie Villanueva's worst ever season.
Stats are one thing. Watching each game is another. Singler is the guy whose play is consistently too poor to find any excuse for him to be in the game. A half here and there, he does ok, makes his defensive contributions as expected, maybe even scores some points. But for the most part, his defense is best described as opted out, or in so many cases, incapable of doing the job given to him. Last night, in the Dallas game, Singler opted out of over a dozen plays where he should have tried at least to contribute some interior D. In addition, he was often seen completely failing to guard Dirk or Vince, two things he is incapable of, and in fact, nobody in the NBA, except apparently our coach, would ask Singler to do. Dallas seemed very pleased to have Singler in there for 32 minutes so they could attack him over and over as their primary play. With Bynum not in the game to pick on, Singler, as they say, stuck out like a sore thumb.
PS, your data matches mine pretty much, I just put it out there per minute, rather than per 36 minutes. Drummond is the outlier, and I know why. He is the guy the coach picks on whenever our starting unit falters, which means he has minus outings locked in over and over whereas the other starters get to stay out there and fight back.
I should try watching a game. Sounds like it adds another dimension.
So in summary, all the guys behind ks are getting screwed by playing with him, so much so that it affects their play when he's not there. Drummond is getting screwed by playing with him too, even though the team is playing winning bball when he's on the bench.
I'd hate to be your red headed step child.
I cant understand why this team is as bad as it is until I see the names on the jerseys. Josh Smith will never be a prime time player but if he is your highest paid player, the team will always be mediocre. This guy is Darth lebron. The Dark Side. You look at the stats and see 25 points-you look closer and see ON 24 SHOTS!!!!! They both came straight out of high school=One has been to the Finals 4 times, the Dark side guy-o times.
Smith and Jennings (another high schooler ) are of the same ilk. This team is what they are because of who they are.
Perhaps if Mo Cheeks didn't play Kyle Singler, then all of the problems you speak of would simply go away?
I completely agree....if those 2 guys are your alphas.....you're screwed. One of them has to go.....I vote for Jennings.
I like how Cheeks has created an offense based on lack of motion. I think he must have set it up for BupBup.
Watching Monroe chase Dirk around screens was kind of fun. With this team you have to take your jollies where you can get them.
Watching the Milwaukee game, I was reminded of what we gave up and I don't mind the trade because Knight stank in a way that is almost spectacular. Jennings passes better. But if you're going to dominate the ball, at least get into the lane once in a while. Calderon abused our PnR defense. Calderon. He's not that fast.
We rely too much on hero ball.
Calderon is an efficient dude on offense.
Especially if his defender runs into the screen. We don't show hard. Don't fight. We may switch.
Ding, ding, ding!
And we have an unfortunate lack of heroes.
Drummond got pulled in the second half twice. That was weird. He looked disgusted, disinterested etc. Henry Bibby went over to talk to him.
Drummond wasn't running the play correctly. They pulled him, talked to him about it, and then put him right back into the game.
Dallas 116, Detroit 106: Pistons' Andre Drummond struggles, then declines to talk about it | Detroit Free Press | freep.com
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