Darko/Arroyo or the pick?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Buckeyes#1, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. Buckeyes#1

    Buckeyes#1 First Round Draft Pick

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    I think most of us would agree that drafting Darko was a mistake. I think Dumars made a second mistake by waiting too long to trade him. Not bashing Dumars here. I still have him as one of the top GM's in all of sports. But my question is, who got the better end of the trade? Orlando or Detroit? I realize our answer may change down the road after we find out who we get. As of right now, I think Detroit got the better end of the deal.

    If it were me, I would package a player or two and move up in the draft as far as I could. When it comes to bb, I worry more about quality than quantity. A followup question would be, if Darko was in this years draft, where do you think he would have been drafted? Assuming we did not know now what we know about Darko of course. Just trying to compare our loss. I think he would probably have gone third this year. So our loss would be dropping 12 places, not counting the loss of Arroyo of course.
     
  2. max

    max All-Star

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    Probably Detroit. Even with Orlando making the playoffs. Namely since Orlando does not seem so hot in re-signing Darko so they will have nothing to show for it if that happends.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The capspace we gained with that trade will be very important this offseason as we lock up our own guys. You have to factor that into the equation. Is re-signing Billups, re-negotiating McDyess' deal, locking up Amir long term and the pick worth Darko and Arroyo?

    I truly [STRIKE]do not[/STRIKE] believe so.
     
  4. Buckeyes#1

    Buckeyes#1 First Round Draft Pick

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    Sorry Roscoe, I'm feeling really tired tonight and am confused. It's the end of a school year and my brain is on E. Are you saying you think Detroit or Orlando got the better end of the deal?
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Yeah, that is confusing. I will go back and fix the post.

    I think Detroit did well on the deal. Orlando, it remains to be seen if they can re-sign the dark one.
     
  6. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    Detroit got the best end of this deal hands down. Darko would barely beat out Dupree while Arroyo might beat out Blalock for spots on the 15. That puts both of em on the inactive list with a late first rounder on the horizon.

    This was addition by subtraction. Ask Orlando.
     
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's a tough question, because Detroit hasn't gotten anything out of the deal yet, and Orlando has almost used up what they got.

    If Detroit drafts some kid with the 15th pick and sits him for the next 2.5 years because he's not better than our starters, then I would say we didn't do very well. If we trade up or get a solid player who can contribute next year, then we are looking good.

    Meanwhile, Orlando would probably not have made the playoffs without Darko and Arroyo's contributions. Also, they have the inside track for resigning Darko, which everyone down there thinks will happen. They freed up salary and are going to be one of the biggest free agent players in the off season. They could realistically make a run at Billups.

    I am still of the opinion that we could have kept Darko, used him as our starting C this year and not needed to sign Nazr Mohammed. To me, we traded the 2 things we need, a young defensive minded center and a backup true point guard. Since we are not using Nazr at all, then I don't know how you can argue that we wouldn't be a better team with Darko + Arroyo coming off the bench (now that we have Webber too).

    Both teams traded hard.
     
  8. max

    max All-Star

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    I suspect that both sides expected more out of the deal.
     
  9. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    The 2003 NBA draft was on June 26, 2003

    2003 NBA Draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Joe D. hired Larry Brown on June 03, 2003 before the draft took place

    SI.com - Pro Basketball - Pistons fire Carlisle, will hire Brown - Sunday June 01, 2003 11:45 AM


    The mistake that Joe D. made was in not checking Brown's history of not playing European players. Up until Brown's first year as coach of the Pistons he had only played two European players any significant minutes in his 20 years as a professional coach.

    Rik Smits started for Brown when Brown coached Indiana and Tony Kukoc played for Brown for a couple of years at Philadelphia. That was it.

    Brown never liked or felt comfortable coaching European players and he didn't like playing inexperienced players.

    Larry Brown Coaching Record - Basketball-Reference.com

    Joe D. should have researched Brown's coaching propensities further before drafting Darko. I will always belief that if Popovich was the Piston coach when the Piston's drafted Darko, he would now be an all star.

    An 18 year old kid by himself in a foreign country, America no less with its temptations, lots of money in his pocket and can't speak the language. With a coach like Brown the odds were stacked against DMC right from the beginning.

    A kid with a lot of talent, but messed up by an old inflexible coach with no regard for his players' feelings in the plural. Two primary examples of this in addition to DMC are AI and Memo.

    AI has been no where near the problem child since he no longer has had to play for the rigid dictatorial coach L. Brown.

    I am amazed that DMC has become as good a player that he has given how much Brown messed his head up. Joe D. saved his NBA career by trading him. As we know DMC was ready to leave the NBA and the U.S. if he wasn't traded away from all those bad memories that Flip couldn't fix. Flip may be good with Xs and Os. But it seems to me that Flip is not the greatest in handling difficult personnel situations and could do nothing to correct the bad DMC situation that Brown had created.

    Yes Joe D. should not have drafted him knowing who DMC was going to coached by in the beginning of his NBA career.

    :hoops:
     
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    If the question is Darko now vs the current prospects in the draft at #15... I'd have to go with Darko... he has made strides in a positive direction... It's not easy for locals to forgive and forget but from a pure talent perspective DMC has more to offer than the bigs available... I believe you can find good swingman & PG's without a lotto pick but quality bigs after the lotto are a rare breed.
    I'd gladly accept his numbers and defense on our current squad (talent over history).
     
  11. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Agreed.
     
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Part of the problem is that Darko won't be cheap anymore.

    If you could draft him now with a rookie contract, then that would be great. But, the Magic will have to pay him real money going forward. They benefitted from his services this year though, which is tough to measure. And remember, they haven't been eliminated yet. So theoretically, he could still help them win the Ship this year. :crutch:

    We, on the other hand, will be getting our draft pick for cheap.
     
  13. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Darko is still young. However, he hasn't shown the desire to get better and he coasted at times which with his minimal experience is inexcusable. Possibly he will get his head on straight once he gets a few years under his belt, the question is - who is willing to pay for this gamble and how much?

    Another question is: what Pistons are going to do with their pick. Assuming Chauncey is coming back, we have 4 starters locked up. We need a center. Is Nazir the answer? So far it doesn't look like that. But is there anyone in the draft or on the free agent market or possibly someone we can trade for that is available that can fill the void? Personally, I don't think so.

    Thirdly, there is still another young guy who will definitely need minutes next year - Amir. Is he going to start? Knowing this Pistons team if they don't change their approach he'd be lucky to get 15-20 minutes per game. I hope he plays a lot and learns quickly. He could be the guy that could provide this roster with many intangibles.

    Anyway you slice it, Joe D. has lots of work, regardless of the playoffs outcome.
     
  14. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Kind of agree with this point Ta >No matter how much some of us hated Arroyo's game, he could have been a difference maker/bandaid to get us past the Heat last year when Billups was worned down during the 2nd and third round of the post season.

    Starting Darko this season and surrounding him with Prince, Sheed, Rip, Cb would or could have yielded the same results as seen with Nazr, but being around these guys for 3 years, there's a possibility he could have actually learned something and been at least three quarters of the potential that some scout lead us to believe he was.
     
  15. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    It's all cool, but what would've happened if the Pistons brought Webb and sent Darko back to the bench? We would've been back to square one. In addition, he didn't want to be part of the organization and he said so several times. Why would we want him here?

    If he applied himself better from the start, possibly he could've gotten more playing time (although tough to say with LB). I'd say it is too much guessing at what may have been.
     
  16. max

    max All-Star

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    From my browsing of the Orlando Sentinel a couple of months ago they apparently are not going to match any huge offers. Not exactly sure what dollar figures they have in mind, we will see.

    Arroyo is not even in the rotation anymore.

    Huge difference from the end of last season when most thought Dumars got shafted. Here we not even getting as good of a pick as we thought and the trade seems to be in our favor. #15 is still not a bad pick.
     
  17. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    It depends what Joe D. does with the pick. Right now that #2 pick from 2003 is still a game of revolving empty chairs with no benefit to the Pistons. But one is always hopeful.

    :hoops:
     
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    He can't possibly screw this one up - can he? Darko, White, Cleaves were all drafted higher than #15. He has to get this one right - I am confident, the Mans about due.
     
  19. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Lot of questions here. Who do we pick with the 15th? Also, how much does Darko sign for? Is he worth it, or does he fail to live up to billing? Let's wait on this question a couple of years..............
     
  20. max

    max All-Star

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    True, still have to give it a couple of years. Couple of months ago I was watching Orl play Dallas and the Dallas announcers could not believe that Dumars gave up on Darko. He does have some believers out there.
     

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