Darko/Arroyo or the pick?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Buckeyes#1, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southfield, MI
    I wonder if after 6 months of contrasting the hunger and self motivation demonstrated by pick #56 of the 2005 draft, against that of pick #2 circa 2003, under nearly identical conditions, Joe D's trade decision became much less distasteful.
  2. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Central Michigan
    As I do not agree with your original premise, I cannot agree with your assumption.

    I don't even think you are asking the right question. It should be, "where would we be if that draftee would have been handled correctly from the first"?

    We would not have several of the current Pistons and might have a more rounded team. Might even have another belt or two.

    Maybe not, but I think so.
  3. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southfield, MI
    I think #2 was handled in proper fashion, which brings to mind why the L is nicknamed No Babies Allowed.

    On this I am sure we shall always agree to disagree.:frusty:
  4. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    1
    What I was trying to say is that you can't say that he screwed up the 2003 #2 pick because it is still revolving around. Who knows he may wind up getting a HOF player with this year's #15 pick.

    As far as I am concerned the case book is not closed on the 2003 #2 pick yet. Stay tuned.

    :hoops:
  5. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't believe that Dumars gave up on DMC's playing ability, but DMC threatened to walk back to Europe if Joe D. didn't trade him. So in order to save face and at least get something in return for DMC Joe D. made the deal. He never really gave up on DMC. It was DMC that gave up on Detroit.

    :hoops:
  6. Buckeyes#1

    Buckeyes#1 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    944
    Likes Received:
    14
    I didn't ask that question cause I thought the answer was obvious. We would have been dynamite if we had drafted Wade. But I respect your opinion. I respect the possibility of Darko being great now if he was handled properly. I just thought it was an interesting question because I can see both sides of the issue. If it was one-sided in my mind, I would not have asked it. I honestly can see both sides of the issue and I am more confused now that I was before. A few of the "we should have kept Darko" posts in this thread have some very compelling arguments in my opinion. Anyways. I thought it was a good and legitimate question, that basically asks, now that the milk has already been spilt, did we choose the right cleanup method?
  7. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    detroit
    darko and arroyo > pick + capspace.

    darko has never been handled correctly since he has been in the nba. he isn't being handled correctly in orlando but at least they are playing him. darko is a beast in the post. he has an outside shot and great passing ability. darko is also a defensive minded big man with rare speed. he's so quick his coach sometimes wrongly puts him on small forwards. i've seen him several times chase guards down on fast breaks. he's a legit 7' with long arms and can check the duncan, j o' neal, kg and the likes. people bring up how the other picks in the draft did. darko is the one top pick in that draft that i feel we had a good chance to sign at a rate that davidson could stomach. wade, melo, bosh, would have left for money. darko just wants to play basketball, show his skills and win.


    what would our defense look like with darko, sheed and tay anchoring it?? what would our zone look like with darko's quickness and size anchoring it. defense and centers win championships we gave up a good young one.

    arroyo is a great backup pg. he can also start if called upon and even carry a team just ask team usa and the rest of the world. many people forget that when he first came here and was allowed to play quite a few people wanted him to play over chauncey. arroyo and dice was an unstoppable combination. arroyo even pushed chauncey to start passing more and it was contagious with the whole team. arroyo also has a very good assist to turnover ratio. lb ruined arroyo and flip finished the job.
  8. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    395
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    The mistake was drafting someone to sit for 3 seasons. It never works, not with low draft picks. Plenty of history before that pick to tell where it was heading.

    Even so. Solid bench guy/avg starter is a bust for a #2 pick. Darko will have to do better. The guy is already 23, almost 24 years old. Supposed to be this defensive stopper and Sheed was able to plow through him like he was not even there in the last Magic game.

    Anyway. Joe's record with good picks has been sub par. Only one of the 3 is still in the league. I think he tries for the homerun ball with good picks and goes for the best player with bad ones. He needs to reverse that and pick the most solid player avail when #15 comes around.
  9. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Central Michigan
    max, just for the record, he is still 21 and won't be 22 for a while.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,511
    Likes Received:
    2,854
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    I'd like to add that I'm glad we got something for him and he didn't just jet off to Europe. That would have been bad for us, him, and the Pistons' organization.

    Once Flip didn't play him, there was not going to be any rehabbing here.
  11. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    1
    I hope you are not referring to DMC when you say the guy is already 23 years old. According to NBA.com he was born June 20, 1985. My math computes him to be 21 years old. This was also the first year that he played over 770 minutes which works out to about 9 minutes a game over a 82 game schedule. Even college starters play more than 770 minutes a year and of course DMC never played college ball.

    This year was actually the first year that he has really played any substantial minutes and he was only 21, younger that some of the 1st round picks this coming year. He also averaged 8 points and 5.5 rebounds per 24 minutes (per game).

    Dyess by comparison 8.0 points and 6.0 rebounds per 21 minutes (per game). So in effect in DMC's first full year of legitimate NBA playing time at the still very young age of 21 he put up numbers comparable to our best reserve, who most posters on this board, including yours truly, think is a top notch power forward.


    NBA.com : Darko Milicic Info Page

    NBA.com : Antonio McDyess Info Page

    :hoops:
  12. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,090
    Likes Received:
    1,418
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    I've been very happy to post on this, and many other threads. It's good to know that there is still a lot of hope out there for Darko. I was never intrigued by his potential. If he wasn't good enough to get minutes, then have a seat. I kept forgetting though that he was so young, and that Larry "long bench" Brown was his coach. Still, he'll never reach the level of a #2 pick in this league...........
  13. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,396
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Amish Hood
    We could probably pull up posts from past Darko threads and find most of these comments...
    I think that Wade & Bosh would have been in the same boat as DMC...
    LB wasn't gonna play any rookies with the mature talent on the team.
    Could Darko have had more success than either of those guys if the teams were reversed?
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,358
    Likes Received:
    2,198
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    It's hard to say this without disparaging DMC's character, but I think that Wade and Bosh have both proved themselves to be leaders and very mature individuals.

    As has been mentioned before by myself and others, DMC just doesn't seem to show the body language that he just loves to play the game.

    He's either dispassionate or too cool for school. Either way, it is hard for me to connect with a player like that.

    Totally subjective observations, but I will stand by them.

    It's all hindsight anyways. I was excited when we drafted Darko.
  15. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,664
    Likes Received:
    510
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    I don't know BBJ, TDrib was LB4LBs choice. And played well as a backup. I think Dumars moved TDrib to rid the Pistons of all of LB4LBs influence. Cause there was no good reason to move CarArr.
    ...Aside from that this thread seems accurate.
    I forget teams would've thrown huge money at Wade, Bosh and Melo...Allan Houston situation.
    The Grapes of Draft pick stealing.
  16. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Central Michigan
    I dunno, roscoe, I have always liked the players who were not demonstrative. I liked Barry Saunders who whenever he scored, just handed the ball to the ref and trotted off the field.

    It seems that I like those players who are cool about winning and do not jump up in the air and throw their fists and such. It is like they expected to win, all along, and were not "surprised" when they succeeded.

    I dearly loved Sugar Ray Leonard and thought he was one of the best fighters, ever. But that habit of jumping up on the ropes and flailing his gloves around and yelling always bothered me. It was like winning was a joyous surprise to him.

    Back in high school (yes, I can still remember that), the cool guys were the ones who always seemed to be running in slow motion. No wasted effort, just made the plays.

    I think for Darko it goes along with the not wanting to play garbage time. He just does not like rubbing oppoinents noses in it. And that is what all this celebratory stuff is all about.

    And this lack of meanness might be what is holding Darko back.

    Just one way of looking at it.
  17. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,664
    Likes Received:
    510
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    Has Darko ever showed any emotion?
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,358
    Likes Received:
    2,198
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    The problem with Barry Sanders is that he was great but not a winner.

    I'm not saying you have to be emotional to play the game well, but let's face it. More of the greats have been emotional and leaders than they have not.

    Grant Hill is another example.
  19. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    1
    In Bosh's rookie year he played 75 games and averaged 33.5 minutes a game. He put up 11.5 points and 7.5 rebounds per game. Toronto was 33-49 that year, so it is easy to understand why Bosh got the minutes.

    Bosh numbers in his rookie year about the same per minute as DMC put up this year, which was the first year he actually got legitimate playing time. 24 minutes a game 8.0 points and 5.5 rebounds per game.

    The Pistons won the NBA title in DMC's rookie year and advanced to the Conference finals the remaining years that DMC was with them. And during that time that had Sheed, Big Ben and Dyess. Who did Bosh have to compete with at Toronto for playing time? Nobody.

    I think in all fairness to DMC we need to wait two more years to assess whether or not he was a legitimate #2 pick.

    :hoops:
  20. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    1
    And in DMC's rookie year the Pistons also had Okur ahead of him. In hindsight I think it is fairly easy to understand why DMC never got the minutes in Detroit and developed a bad attitude.

    To quote DMC "I didn't come to America to sit on a gymnasium bench".

    He was drafted by the wrong team. It was his misfortune that that as a #2 pick the team that drafted him would win the NBA title in his rookie year with 4 NBA All-Star big men on the squad ahead of him.

    :hoops:

Share This Page