Darko/Arroyo or the pick?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Buckeyes#1, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    The plus minus is a fallacious relative statistic when comparing players on two teams because there are two teams and the plus minus of a player when they are on the floor is aided and abetted by who their teammates are and who their opponents are. Since Sheed has the superior teammates I would hope that he would have a better plus minus than DMC.

    The ability to Treys are irrelevant when comparing players. Wilt, Kareem, Mikan etc never made a three in their lives.

    :hoops:
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Actually, Kareem made one in 86/87. Mikan and Chamberlain played in an age when there was no 3 pointers. Now that is fallacious.
     
  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Just for the record, Darko can shoot threes. Extremely well in fact. That is why we drafted him. Nobody lets Darko shoot threes though. Just like Larry Brown, Brian Hill wants Darko to post up. Likewise, Brian Hill will not let Howard shoot his midrangers, which he would do ok on if he was allowed to shoot them. He has been letting Darko shoot midrangers a bit of late, and Darko has only missed 1 of about 7 of them in the past couple of weeks.
     
  4. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Roscoe

    If I remember correctly Kareem's foot was actually on the line, but being "Cap" and all and at the Forum the refs gave it to him on the other hand it could have been that half court desperation shot that he took with the clock running down. In any case he was 39 when he made it so DMC has another 18 years to equal Cap's career three point total. LOL

    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Statistics - Basketball-Reference.com

    Regarding Mikan. The guy couldn't see past the foul line even with glasses. LOL So I doubt seriously that he ever would have attempted yet alone made a three point shot.

    George Mikan - Hoopedia

    As far as Wilt goes. I can't image anyone shooting 3 point shots underhanded.

    Though I must admit I had never heard the term "Wack-A-Wilt" before I read this article.

    Shaquille O'Neal vs. Wilt Chamberlain: both are the premier centers of their eras, but when they face off against each other, it's no contest Basketball Digest - Find Articles

    Even Shaq has made a 3 with Orlando and had a better career 3 point field goal percentage than his teammate Jason Kapono. LOL

    Career Field Goal Percentage

    Shaq 50% 1 for 2
    Kapono 46% 230 for 501
    AJ 33% 2 for 6
    Cap 06% 1 for 18
    DMC 00% 0 for 4

    So DMC is only 1 three pointer behind Shaq and Kareem. Not bad company if I do say so myself.



    :hoops:
     
  5. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I think we can look at the Toronto rook. He has similar game to Darko's. They let him shoot treys and hang out around the 3-point line. He's had a pretty decent season doing that. Not sure why coaches are trying to change players games to adjust to their coaching style if that takes away from the players games. Are you sure Sheed would still be able to play at the same level if he spent much more time inside banging? I believe there is a benefit of having him hanging out at the 3-point line. Not always, he's been overdoing it, but at the same time it kept his body healthier.
     
  6. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    #1. Never, ever draft a project with the #2 overall pick. That pick should be NBA ready.

    #2. Still too early to tell whether or not Darko will pan out evenutally.

    #3. With this upcoming draft being the deepest in years, it would be hard to tell jsut where Darko would fall. But let me preface that by saying, some fool GM would likely take him with an early pick just because of his size, but with a lot of college centers (proven) in this years draft, Darko (unproven) would probably be a late round 1 pick.

    #4. The worst thing that has happened with the Pistons that spunned from the whole Darko trade, is Nazr who was paid to be our starting center, but he sits, and sits and sits.

    #5. Judging from our track record, we have a terrible time with developing centers.
     
  7. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    You think Mc Dyess should stay a couple of seasons more?
    I'd say next season is the perfect time to bring AJ/JMax off the bench instead of Dyess. I don't think he has much left in him, probably about one more season.
    @Topic
    I still think we're at the worse end of the deal. Moving Arroyo was ok but Darko is becoming an at least decent player. With the pick, no one knows what we'll get.
    I'm still dreaming of what could have been if we kept Darko- just imagine a frontline of Tay/AJ/Darko with JMax as the 3rd big of the bench.
    Broad future.
     
  8. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    1a And when you draft a project, don't be upset when he turns out to be a project.

    People complain about Darko not developing fast enough, but last I checked, neither JMax or Amir is ready for prime time. Amir might be ready next year.

    As for Orlando, without Darko, I doubt they make the playoffs using Battie, Outlaw, and Pat Garrity as their other bigs. So, they're ahead of Detroit with the trade.

    My question for Detroit, considering there track record with rooks, is when will this upcoming pick actually contribute some meaningful minutes? If we have to wait 3 or 4 years for the pick just to get to the level of Delfino, Orlando won hands down.
     
  9. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Well 16, for you to be really happy this Pistons team would have to go in the tank so we can rely on rookies and youngsters?

    With the success this team has had it's amazing how much there still is to complain about...but I guess that makes for interesting discussions.
     
  10. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Not complaining, just stating my belief that Orlando got the better end of the Darko trade.

    And a team doesn't have to tank to rely on youngsters. Delfino did a pretty good job as a backup on Saturday. No reason, with a little PT, Amir shouldn't be providing the same spark off the bench.
     
  11. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I have to say that it is hard to draft when you already have a team that is a championship-caliber with starters in their late 20's early 30's locked in the long term contracts. You know, no matter who you draft won't crack the starting line up. So, then what do you do? My thought is that you do draft projects that ease in their way into the lineup so that when your main guys leave, retire, etc. you have ready players stepping in that are familiar with the system that developed them.
    On another note, what do you do with a player that constantly pouts and doesn't want to be on your team? You try to get the best out of that and that's what Joe tried to do. I am not going to blame him for Darko. Just think what would have happened if he drafted someone like Wade who wouldn't get much playing time behind Chauncey and Rip.
     
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    If there was a #2 pick out there who would silently sit on the bench for 3 years, then I would question his desire.
     
  13. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I agree. But also, at the same time, it put Joe in a no win situation with that pick. You don't want to ruin your team's chemistry, but at the same time you know that the guy you're drafting is going to want minutes. I wonder what would Anthony have said about sitting on the bench for a couple of years.

    :fight2:
     
  14. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    I have to believe that Joe did ot expect Darko to sit quietly on the bench and rot for several years without complaining. He, I am sure, saw him playing a few minutes as a bench player and gradually earning more minutes as the seasons progressed.

    Also, I really beleieve that DMC was not a pouter for a long time, until he began to feel that he had no chance to earn anything at all.

    Remember, had his PT been there to earn, Dyce would never have been needed, nor would Davis, or our presently overpaid, underutilized 5.

    Sheed, Tayshaun and Darko would be an awesome frontline now and in the future, with AJ and JMax working their ways in as Sheed ages.

    I had no problem with LB working DMC into the low post but teaching him what to do and letting him do it in games, are two different things. Doing those things against your own similarly-trained teammate is one thing but doing it against other teams is different.
     
  15. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    The problem was that we had WallaceX2 plus McDyess at that time. Wallaces averaged over 30 minutes and Dyess over 20 for the most part. You only have 96 minutes for the bigs for the game. If you have Sheed and Ben going for about 35 each and Dyess for 25 - that's 95 leaving Darko with 1 minute to play. I am sure Joe expected more progress from Darko, maybe if Darko got more playing time it would have been different. However, reserves didn't get to play much over the past several years. If Flip had similar approach last year that he had this year with bench playing so much more, it is quite possible we still would have had Darko around. Look at how many boneheaded plays Delfino made, how many games he managed to lose. But he still got his minutes. Darko had to almost be perfect to get any minutes. Maybe the bar was set too high, but he needed more time than he got. We can't say much about his progress with Pistons. We only had LB and Flip to rely on for that info since Darko didn't get much playing time.
     
  16. jetscreamer

    jetscreamer First Round Draft Pick

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    Hey, everyone has to realize Detroit should have left him in europe for several years to mature. He had a huge buy-out. We didn't need him and it normally takes bigs longer to develope. Let him get physically and mentally stronger. But once we signed him now we have a ticking time bomb. You have to use him because he wants (and so does his agent) to get paid. Now we also have a problem because we are in a championship drive. LB had to prove he was right about Melo over Darko disagreement with Dumars. It was a combination of factors. I question his heart; he is no stoic like Barry Sanders. Talent oozed out on the football field. Draft day axiom don't pick a guy number two unless you intend to play him or else it is a recipe for disaster. Culturally this was a bad fit but Dumars brought over a Serbian coach. Hopefully Dumars learns from his mistakes and doesn;t repeat them.
     
  17. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    Actually, we didn't have Rasheed or Dyess when Darko was drafted. We had Ben and Okur and Zelly (?) and uncle Cliffy (?) and Corliss.

    There were minutes available, Larry Brown just refused to give any of them to a NUMBER TWO OVERALL PICK. Just another example of LB trying to show every GM who he thinks is boss.

    There were minutes for Darko, just not under a coach that didn't like foreign guys. LB didn't want to play Okur over Williamson either, but he almost "had to" do it because of how much better Okur is than Corliss was at the time.

    Darko SHOULD have played and yes Orlando did get the better end of that trade.
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    LanierFan had an absolutely beautiful response on Detroit Bad Boys for an Orlando fan asking about the Darko/Detroit paradigm.

    “It’s time” vs. “Code Blue” at Detroit Bad Boys

     
  19. lurker

    lurker First Round Draft Pick

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    I saw that response too (after laughing for several hours about the "Code Blue" thing in the main post--dang that writer is funny) and I thought it was the best thing I have ever read about the whole Darko situation, either online or in print. Nice job, LanierFan.
     
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yiddish Parrot

    Darko is the Parrot in this joke.
    Meyer = Joe Dumars
    Yiddish = 3-pointers.
     

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